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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,892 Likes: 109
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,892 Likes: 109 |
I think the companies already had their grade structures established by the time Skeet came along. Remington did the same thing. They introduced their Model 31 Skeet Gun pump, Model 32 Skeet Gun over-under and their "Sportsman" Skeet Gun autoloader. These could also be had in their custom shop D "Tournament" Grade, E "Expert" Grade and F "Premier" Grade.
At Winchester it was the same thing. They had their Model 97 and 12 in Standard, Tournament, Trap and Pigeon Grades. But for the Model 21 they went with Standard, Tournament, Trap and Custom Built Grades.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 916 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 916 Likes: 1 |
Schwing's statement that Skeet Grade changed in 1936 from a sub-grade to "a grade unto itself" is the only thing I've seen here that seems more than mere impression or opinion. Nothing here to persuade me that all his M-21 research led him to get something specific and basic like this wrong.
Jay
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 72
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 72 |
Sorry Guys I just got in. First I don't have pics but it is marked SKEET on the action bottom [no crazing whatsoever] 26 barrels WS1 AND WS2, Single trigger, ejectors, straight English Grip, Beavertail, checkered butt [all sharp]. It is a one owner "estate" gun and has never been hunted, only fired a couple of times. I had a gunsmith go look at it and he said it is the nicest 21 he has seen in a long time, especialy that old. Serial number is in the 221x series. This gun has not been refinished, it is all original. Thanks for all the responses.
H
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 879
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 879 |
My 20 gauge 2 bbl set, according to my Cody letter, is a Skeet grade gun, but is not marked "Skeet" on the floorplate (factory Oopsie?) Has all the other characteristics, including the Hessian fore end. Bbls are 26" I/C / Mod and 30" Mod/Full
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,129 Likes: 198
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,129 Likes: 198 |
Winchester did not use "Skeet Grade", either in 1933, 1936, or later. The first mention of the "Skeet Gun", Tournament or Trap grade is the August 12, 1933 price list. The June 21, 1932 price list made no mention of the Skeet Gun. However, the "Skeet Gun" folder mentions skeet championships won by Model 21 shooters in 1932. At the same time or a little later, the Standard Grade was available with skeet chokes. In the January 2, 1936 price list, Skeet Guns were available in Standard Grade, Trap Grade, and Custom Built Grade, and the Tournament Grade's short run had ended. Skeet Grade is not mentioned, nor was it mentioned in any later lists or catalogs that I am aware of. Cody, Schwing, and Madis make up their own terminology, not all of which is in synch with Winchester catalog offerings. The 1933 "2000 Proof" Model 21 catalog is the first to mention the Skeet Gun.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 916 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 916 Likes: 1 |
Maybe Schwing, Cody and Madis made up their own terminology. Seems more likely to me that Winchester internal records referred to "Skeet Grade", and that the guns in fact have the "grade" characteristics detailed by Schwing. After all, Cody reports what's on paper in those individual gun records. Makes more sense to me that the difference is the marketing guys making up their own sales-focused terminology for ads and catalogs.
Jay
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Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 72
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 72 |
It appears [according to the Schwing book] that the shotgun is a 1936 era stand alone "SKEET" {TYPE?}, although the 221x SERIAL NUMBER INDICATES 1934 manufacture but M21 receivers were not used sequentially and this type of Model 21 did not appear until 1936. It has the Bradley red front sight and all other indices of this type. It does not have checkered side panels but Schwing says this is common in the model. I have ordered a letter from Cody to verify all this before purchasing.
THANKS
H
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
GunLuv-er May I ask a favor. I don't have the Ned Schwing M21 book- can you look up the serial number on a 12 field grade M21 sn 15992- My late father bought it, used, for about $75.00 from a Queen City gun shop, (circa 1948-79) the owner traded it in on a Browning Super-posed-it has 28" barrels choked imp. cyl. and mod- ejectors and SST- I've owned/inherited it since about 1981 Thanks, Dad!) and it is field grade, no engraving, but on the left barrel near the breech it is marked 3" chambers- but it is NOT a Heavy Duck model- nothing on the bottom of the floor plate, and for a workhorse boxlock, it weighs 7 lb. 4 ounces-good balance and handling too. Thanks RWTF
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,892 Likes: 109
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,892 Likes: 109 |
From Winchester Catalog 89, 1934 --  From the February 24, 1934, Price List that goes with Catalog 89 -- 
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,566 Likes: 100
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,566 Likes: 100 |
Schwing says the SKEET Grade was introduced in '36.
Do you have the '36 catalogue?
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