doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Value of 1934 Skeet Model 21

Beat me to it Bob. Here (referenced for the third time) is the quote from Schwing's book on page 108:

"Introduced earlier in the Tournament and Trap Grades as a sub-grade, 1936 was the first year for the Skeet Grade as a grade unto itself."

But Researcher did post some later catalog references about the "Skeet Gun" in other grades. I think when Winchester began treating the gun as a separate grade in terms of distinct features, the marketing guys for their own reasons resisted and continued producing catalogs consistent with it being a sub-grade. It makes no sense to me that Cody and others working from original internal records (in addition to the advertising material) would all choose to invent a non-existent "grade" inconsistent with the catalogs.

As we've seen in this thread, Cody continues to report Skeet Grade for individual guns from those records.

Inconsistency isn't all that surprising, we know too that Winchester pretty routinely made guns per order that differed from their normal offerings. The business of the M-21 was not what we think of today as "businesslike".

Jay

Another thought. My 16 ga. marked SKEET on the trigger plate, 12,000 range serial no. , came with a Winchester leg of mutton case and had European walnut straight buttstock and beavertail. Chokes are marked Wsk1 and 2.

RWTF: My resource OLDGUNS.NET only go to just over SERIAL NUMBER 10,000 so I'm sorry I can't be of help. I do not have the 1936 Catalogue and BTW NOONE HAS STILL VENTURED AN EDUCATED GUESS [AS DESCRIBED] of its' value!

THANKS

H

$3000.....give or take ..

come on its an American made boxlock......

We've still yet to see pictures.
Assuming everything the OP says about the gun is true,

26" 12 gauge WS1/WS2...$6000
English stock, Checkered butt...$500
99% "original" condition(???)...$1000

If I was selling I'd want $8000,
If I was buying I'd pay $6000

Indeed, one that took 2000 blue pill over-proof loads, and made a Purdey and a few other fine guns- "bite the dust". The M21 Dad left me has had a lot of rounds through it before it came to me, still on face, ejectors in time-I have left the trigger selector to fire the right barrel first ever since 1981-works like a Rolex tells time. The "spring assisted" opening feature makes some folks think the action is loose, when the push the top lever over to un-breech the gun- As far as "graceful" handling and balance- Like a solid Stevens 311 or an Ithaca NID-waaay over-priced on today's market, IMO. But because I will never sell any of the "family" guns that came my way over time, I really don't give a good rattlin'damn what the market values may be- One of my gunning pals at our Pheasant Farm Hunting Club bought a pre-WW2 M21- Skeet 26" WS-1 and WS-2, PG, BT-SST and AE from Wm. Larkin Moore in AZ and paid about $2500 for it- Marked SKEET on the bottom of the receiver, very nice wood and checkering-But way heavier than my Field Grade, with the splinter forearm and 28" barrels.

Are you referring to that little spring connected to the barrel stop? From what I see of how it works on my gun, it does nothing to assist opening -- it just allows the barrel stop to "float" within the lug and very slightly softens the stop's engagement with the frame. I believe the patent description of this feature calls it simply "floating barrel stop".

Jay

I've shown you all the 1933, 1934 and 1938 Winchester catalogue pages that pertain to the Model 21 Skeet Gun. I do not have a 1936 Winchester catalog, but if your interested Cornell sells a repro --

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Winchester-1936-Pocket-Catalog-/291642029334?hash=item43e7383516:g:kHwAAOSw~otWdG~n

I'd be willing to bet it shows the same terminology as the 1938 that I've shown.

Here is from a Winchester folder titled "Winchester Skeet Parade of 1934" --



Here is from the Winchester Skeet Book dated 1934 --



This is from an undated Winchester Skeet Book, but it includes the winners of the 1935 National Championships which were held in late August 1935 --



And, to close out what I have for the 1930's here is from the 1939 Winchester catalog --

Mr. Cash, yes, I have a 1936 catalog and it says nothing about a skeet grade, nor does any other catalog. How about giving it a rest. The 1936 catalog says nothing about a skeet grade, regardless of what Mr. Schwing says. I told you earlier that the 1936 document showed only "skeet gun" not "skeet grade". What don't you understand about that and Mr. Researcher's statements. Maybe it's your turn to produce some Winchester catalog that refers to a Skeet Grade.

Tudurgs, I am calling you out on your claim that a Cody letter calls your gun a skeet grade. I have looked at a baggo Cody letters for skeet guns and have not seen this description of a Skeet Grade. Skeet finish, yes, Skeet Grade, no. Please scan the letter for us. I am not saying that Cody could not misinterpret the terminology, as Schwing has, but we aren't going to find a Winchester catalog that describes the Skeet Gun as a Skeet Grade.