doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Value of 1934 Skeet Model 21

Gunflint Charlie, yes, Schwing was definitely confused in his terminology on page 108. On page 109, Winchester catalog pictures and captions clearly call the guns, "Standard Grade Skeet Guns", which is what they were then and are now. On the following pages, he continues to incorrectly describe the Magnum and the Duck Guns as Magnum and Duck Grades, which they were not then and are not now. By the way, Reseacher, thanks for sticking to your guns on this subject. You are right and the rest of the posters are mistaken, taken in by Schwing's misinterpreting of the factory literature, which has been continually right in their description of the Model 21 Skeet Gun as the "Model 21 Skeet Gun". I am waiting for the Cody letters and catalog entries that describe this gun otherwise. Mr. Cash, yes I do have the 1936 catalog, as I said earlier, and I also have all the rest.

If you'll re-read my first post, I only referred to the Schwing book as the source of my information. Very sorry to have ruffled your feathers.

My feathers only got ruffled when I told you that I had the catalogs including 1936, that specified that skeet was a style, not a grade and you still defied me to produce the catalog. I wasn't lying, nor is Researcher. I have all the catalogs.

Well, since I already acknowledged that the post-1935 catalogs are inconsistent with Schwing, I don't find vehemence and irritability makes that info more compelling as evidence that Winchester design and production guys didn't consider and document 1936 and later guns as Skeet Grade. This mere inconsistency didn't and still doesn't persuade me that Schwing was wrong in saying the guns became a separate grade in 1936.

If Winchester production records show nothing changed, then why would he make such a specific assertion as this?

"Introduced earlier in the Tournament and Trap Grades as a sub-grade, 1936 was the first year for the Skeet Grade as a grade unto itself."

I'm not calling anyone out, just trying to reconcile the contradiction in a way I think reasonable. I see no reason to question tudurgs veracity in reporting info from his Cody letter -- no more than I'd call you out Bill to scan and show us a post-1935 Cody letter referencing "Skeet Gun".

Like I said, inconsistency isn't so hard for me to accept given all we know about how Winchester operated.

Jay

Apologies again as I didn't completely read any post by you regarding your catalog collection.
A quick internet search produced the following item for sale

Product Description
WINCHESTER � Model 21 SKEET, 12ga. 30" barrels choked M/F

Schwing is most likely the seller, huh??

Yup!

All wise guying aside,
More delving into the internet shows plethora of "SKEET" stamped 2 barrel sets, the underlying thread is that 1 set is always WS1/WS2.
Do you suppose that the a fore mentioned gun may have originally been part of a 2 barrel set, the Skeet barrels lost to time. Hmmmmm...

That would be my guess, Bob.

Bill - Am in FL presently. Won't get home until April. Will scan it then. I may be playing fast and loose with "Skeet". Forgotten if it says Grade or Finish

I have a copy of the 1938 Winchester Sales Manual- re: M21- see pages 38-39-- Trap and Tournament Grades listed only--Nothing about Skeet- which came about in the early 1930's, taken from Wm. Hardon Foster's "Shooting Around The Clock" I have read.RWTF