doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Who Knows the Standard Bore-Size of a "TWO"Bore??

We have a Single Bbl. Built in Portland Maine. The Owner would like to Shoot it. Any Loading Data etc.would be well recieved. Thank You.( McI refuses to be 'The Guinea Pig") CC

1.325" sounds right, but Im going from memory. I could be wrong (expect it actually) oh, and pictures. We must see pictures!

David,
According to my copy of the Birmingham Proof House Act of 1955, Appendix 3, table 2 a nominal bore size of "2" corrosponds to 1.325 inches for "barrels of arms of the first class and smooth bore arms of the fourth class".

FWIW they only give bore dimensions for bores "A" (2") through "3" (1.157"). From "4" down they give chamber dimensions.

The Act of 1925 shows a 2 bore load using 2350 grains of Powder, T.P. or 5oz., 6dr. load.. 1925 Act shows a bullet weight of 3342 grains.

The Act of 1868 Scale for Rifled Arms shows a 2 bore having a bore range of 1.250-1.325,

For proof,

a bullet diameter of 1.230-1.305,

bullet length of 1.845-1.958,

ratio of Length to diam. 1.500,

There are also powder charges and service charge listings.

What the hell do you shoot with a 2 bore? I want a picture of the MAN who can shouler and pull the trigger of a gun that has a barrel the size of a fence post.

Bill G.

CC - Is this a shoulder-mounted weapon or is it a punt gun for mounting on the bow of a boat?

Love to see a pic.

Not a 2, just a small little 4 bore.

Movie of 4 bore doubling.

OUCH

4 bore DBL Rifle.

I've been reading The Recollections of an Elephant Hunter: 1864-1875 By William Finaughty. Doe's anyone know the bore size of the muzzle loader he used?

Somewhere I read an article on this, but off hand don't recall where, I think perhaps in a shooting sportsman mag from several years ago. Technically a 2 ga is 1.325" dia & a 4 ga 1.052" dia. In actual practise most 4ga guns are built for a paper case with actual bore dia of about .935" & proofed as a 6ga (.919" Dia). For many years, the author stated, 2 ga guns had been built with actual 4ga bore dias of 1.052 & Proofed as such but chambered for a paper case of larger dia the 4 ga chamber dimensions & listed as a 2ga gun (the 4ga chamber size was established using thin wall all brass cases). You should be able to find a machinist or gunsmith around who could measure both your bore & chamber to know for certain what you have. This would be most highly recommended as a first step with anything of an unusual nature.

At the Beinfeld Sahara gun show of about 30 years ago, there was a double barreled 2 gauge. If memory serves correctly, it was an H&H but may have been something else. It weighed 35 pounds.

2-piper, read the first post on this subject, BEFORE you recommend he finds a good machinist or gunsmith!!!!!!!
This request for information came from no other than God isself, disguised to enter amongst us as a Pearly Queen.
Mr. Trevallion, Sir, I most humbly submit to you, Oh! very revered one that I, the little wood elf from Middle Earth (AKA Shropshire)will trek to the Wrekin where in my secret cave I will have ye olde mix for breathing dragons fire from Ye olde fensman's smoke stick,but me needs to know if it be bulwark or shoulder mounted, not as that effects the load too much, it's just that I'm a nosey old git.

salopian
My Red;
By the time I got down a few posts & everyone was talking bore size I forgot the original question. He was asking for load data, not bore size.
W W Greener in his 1910 book did state the Eley 2-Bore paper cartridge was for use in bores of "Practically 4-Bore" thin brass case dimensions & thus recommended the same loads. For the 4-Bore he recommended either 11 drams with 3½oz shot or 12 drams & 3oz shot. If he's seeking smokeless, he's on his own.

PS; Not so crazy after all, here's the topic title
""Who Knows the Standard Bore-Size of a "TWO"Bore??""
My answer was relevant after all, I still recommend he measure it, what size his gun is is the important point. I did fail to note who posted, but assumed by asking it was another. Wouldn't have figured DT had a need to ask.

Gentlemen, The Owner of Said Piece of Weaponry, has forwarded several Photos.Very Impressive! I will have to scan and have them posted later.I dont have any of the "Specs",Weight, Bbl. Length,etc.a friend and his son, who discovered the'Gun' will post makers name and other pertinent Info. I have seen some Large Holes in the back of some 'Shoulder-Held' Shotguns......This is 'To say the least', Impressive'

Salopian,I've not been called'Sir' before, a'Cur' yes.So,are you telling us you you have more Info' on this 2 bore??(I see we are using the"word Bore" ....What is the 'Gauge'!!!......UPDate.. Just had pho call... Maker of gun,G.Bailey, Portland, Maine.The Action is of Bronze or Brass. Has 1859 stamped on it.There are no Lanyard Loops in the Stock. Opening-Lever is on the Rt.side of Action, Cocking-Lever on the Left Side.Splinter Forend has the 'Traditional Cross-Bolt Fastener',Straight-Hand Stock, Steel Butt-Plate. Single-Trigger....(Just Checking!!!).If some Kind-Harted Reader would Post the Photos, I would email them the 'Pics'...cc/DT.

For what it's worth, to find a caliber C for a given gauge G

C = 1.669/ G^(1/3)

For a 12 gauge, C = 1.669/12^(1/3) = 1.669/2.289 = .729

Very good post Gr8day...and a first one at that. I imagine that info has been posted before, but that caught my eye for some reason and I saved it.

Welcome!
Mark

David,

The Proof House documents show load data for proof and service if interested.

Send me a fax # and I will forward.

Recoil Rob

To add just a little to Gr8day's formula, I have posted this on several occasions incidently, if you want all sizes from 1 ga down to 172.28ga (.300cal) to round to within ±.001" of the dia' s given in British Rules of Proof it is necessary to go to 6 decimal places for the 1ga. There is a very small range which will give correct figures but about the middle of the road is 1.669285.
Also an interesting aside is if the wt of lead as given in various publications (.4096lb/CuIn) for a long number of years is calculated there will be found a slight (very slight) error all the way down the Proof House chart. A few years back we discussed here the possible cause of this. The most plausible to me was the possibility that the ball used for the calculations had been rolled to insure roundness & in the process was in fact slightly compressed. I cannot now recall whose idea this was to give credit. The error only amounts to a very few thousandths of an inch & would show the sizes to be slightly larger than the charts. Plugging in the above listed wt of lead gives the 1ga a dia of 1.6706".

RR."WE" all the 3 of us that are not in the 'Ownership Ring" of the G L Bailey 2bore,are extremely Appreciative for all the replys about the loading Data. I packed most of my Proof,(Rules Of") and all other Data; 1 yr ago readying for a move to a new location.Gave away my Lapping Bench, most of the Pre-cast Lead-laps'with rods 10bore thru 28b.If I can 'Get my Hands On the 2bprs I will make a Chamber Casting, Measure BORE @ 9",The Wall thickness from Breech to Muzzle, Will poss be of Interest to 'Some" I wonder how much 'Cerro=safe' it will take to go 4-5" in from the Breech-End?????"GUN-HEADS" ready the calculators..!!!Photos coming from gun-vault on Fox Hill. c/c

Hello Crossedchisles,
I now own the Gilbert Bailey, Portland Maine 4 gauge gun that was discussed as a 2 gauge June 16, 2007 & would like to find out more its history. It was sold to me 12/10/2023 & previously sold in 2015.
Thank you for your help.
Jerry

Can't help you Jerry but congrats on the acquisition. I was lucky enough to shoulder a Greener 4 bore double last year. What a behemoth!

Thanks for the reply. Apparently Crossedchisles was associated with The Gun Vault At Fox Hill (ME). Their website & phone no longer in service. I hope someone might be able to let them know or contact me. It's a good gun. I collect Maine made guns, fishing tackle anything related to Maine early gunsmiths & gunpowder companies.

David Trevallion last visited the Forum 4 years ago and has closed his shop
I do not know if the email listed here is current
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showprofile&User=5210
This was his last phone number
207-704-0450

Thank you. I left a message at that number.

I last talked to him about 15 months ago; he was going to write up his recollections of 70 years in the gun business starting at Purdey when he was 13. I know Vic Venters keeps up with him.

Your 4 bore is a different gun than the one originally discussed. The Bailey 2 bore belongs to the uncle of a friend of mine. The uncle is/was a plumber who found the gun leaning against the wall in the basement of a house he was working in, along with a higher grade Lefever (as I recall) 8 bore double. he asked the homeowner what to do with the guns as they were perched where the work was to be done. The reply was "If you want them take them".

My dad and I went to see the Bailey gun and as David T. described it's a brass action single shot. I thought possibly a rebarrelled line throwing or harpoon gun or some such. 36" barrel if I'm remembering correctly. Measuring across the muzzle showed about 1.25". Very cool piece. Very plain but in nice shape. The owner was not interested in selling.

The story about the gun was that it was made for a ships Captain to shoot sea ducks off of South Portland. There are actually two identical guns. The first was delivered to the Captain and the first time he fired it he was knocked overboard and lost the gun to the deep. So he had another one made. The owner eventually had some cases turned out on a lathe. I don't know if he ever shot it. I took pictures to show David and gather what info he had if any. If I can find the pictures I'll try to post them. No promises as that was about 4 computers ago.

If anyone here is a diver looking for an adventure, there's another one supposedly sitting on the bottom off Willard Beach.

Hello NTaxiarchis,
You are right. Dwight Demeritt mentions that gun & story on page 191 in his book "Maine Made Guns & Their Makers". I knew Dwight for many years & he started my interest in collecting Maine guns. I wondered what happened to the Captain's gun. If possible, photos would be great. Does it still exist? I would be interested in it if it becomes available,
My gun was purchased through Rock Island December 2023 auction. 4 Gauge, 43.5 inch barrel, stamped "G. L. Bailey & Co. Portland ME", overall length 60 inches. It is a breech loader with the action made of "cannon brass" (bronze ?) & also stamped 1850 on the barrel.
Thank you,
Jerry

Can photos be posted from the computer rather than a service?