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I continued to be dismayed by the idea that we are to believe that waterfowl are walking and diving to ingest lead shot. The numbers wounded and die because of the Steel Shot etc are far greater than the mytical number that would become ill from Lead shot. Even a Duck would know the difference between Rice,Wheat and seeds and a lead pellet. How the beaurarat got it through is still a mystery to me.

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Damn! I thought prices for BI were already through the roof. Who is the world's largest supplier of this element?

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We'll just have to make bismuth, as suggested, and from many posts here from our Australian and Texan members it's not beyond a collective effort to provide enough shot for ourselves and our buddies. I can't cook but I bet I can make bismuth.

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King, I'm willing and able to help but we are miles apart. Prehaps we could have an event somewhere where we gather to make shot and tell lies. There are already people making lead shot. how difficult could it be to adapt the equipment to Bi. David

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I just called the Bismuth No-Tox company and spoke to a gentleman working there. Bismuth shot production ceased several months ago. Due to the death of the owner the company is now for sale. According to the person I spoke with they expected the company to be sold and business to resume as usual. He mentioned there were offers on the table. I did get the sense from further discussion that continued operations are not definite and hinge upon a successful sale. The heirs of the estate are not interested in running this business. In further discussion he informed me they own the patent for Bismuth shot so unless someone buys those rights production of Bismuth shot becomes in my opinion unlikely. Overall the person I talked to was optimistic but the future of Bismuth shot has not been finalized.

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Better than that, David. When I got notice here minutes ago I spoke to a Canadian company and entrepreuner anticipating bismuth production before the year's end. This board could provide technical help, if needed, i.e. additives for hardness, experience with making it.

I don't know the history of bismuth but somehow I think the shot-making notion started in Canada, picked up by American entrepreuners. the bismuth was mined here and shipped to U.S. and returned to Canada as finished product. And maybe not; let's see where it goes.

Whatever, we don't have to sweat it. If there's demand and a dollar to be made entrepreuners will erect a ladder to heaven.


Last edited by King Brown; 06/20/07 01:11 PM.
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I agree with King and hope we're right. If the demand is there, the free market will provide a solution. It would sure be nice, though, if it was a less expensive one. TT


"The very acme of duck shooting is a big 10, taking ducks in pass shooting only." - Charles Askins
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Originally Posted By: Two Triggers
I agree with King and hope we're right. If the demand is there, the free market will provide a solution. It would sure be nice, though, if it was a less expensive one. TT


Would that be the same free market that brought us $700 toilet seats and current medical costs? Or the one that brings us $500 computers? I hope the latter, but I'm not so optimistic.

Brent


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Originally Posted By: Brent
Al, we don't vote on every single law - but I would agree with any law to ban lead shot in waterfowl hunting. And you know that I shoot only old guns that cannot handle steel.

The lead shot problem was real and there is a lot of good data to support it. I've posted more than once on the data that supports it.

If Bi shot is gone, that's a serious blow to me.

We have lost a lot of freedoms, lead-shot waterfowling, the use of DDT, and a few more come to mind as things we are better off without.



Brent


Brent, I hope you know I have nothing but respect for you and your knowledge. I would in no way dispute that the data you have seen you believe to be true.

I should get off my duff and write this up and submit what I have learned over the past 34 years on this subject.

For starters data outside of this issue stands in direct dispute of what has been applied to the public about the problem.

A major university was told that they would loose all Federal funding and State funding if they published a government sponsored report that strongly disputed the Agency reports. I have this on first hand eye witness account by one of the project researchers of this two year project.

This project was conducted in the area of Northern California in the area that the government made these claims.

I get so dog mad about this subject because I know the lies and I know who and why this crap happened.

This has been classic Administrative law at work. Did you know the last hold out that refused to comply with the feds did not give in until 2001. They gave in only due to peer pressure and lies and government grants. I fought this tooth and nails with these guys, who to this day feel betrayed by their own people.

Did it not seem strange to anyone that the lead toxicity went down with the occurrence of another event?

The removal of lead from gasoline in California went hand in glove with the lead shot. Yet the toxicity reportedly fell in waterfowl. One might ask what happen to the lead that was already in the water? Was the state of California's water ways the first and largest super fund clean-up site? Did this happen under the cover of darkness?

Anybody ever look at existing data and research on water and lead in contact with each other?

Lots of data from outside disciplines on this issue, that had no interest in waterfowl, in direct contradiction to government findings.

I will add, done before and after this lie got out.

I'm done, I don't care if you who read this care or not.

Please prove me wrong! Al

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The lead in the water is still there - in the sediments and largely not an issue as it becomes buried under more sediments. It's not lead in the water, it's lead in the ducks and a constant rain of lead into wetlands was pretty effective at poisoning them. Once the lead rain stopped the problem has largely abated. I posted a link on this topic a while back to estimates of how many birds this is saving us so that hunters can hunt them. Find the link and read for yourself.

And just to cut off the normal follow up howls of dispute, there are many many many studies, not one, that finds that lead was a major problem in wetlands.

As for the one study in CA, I don't know what you are talking about or how it applies to this. Shit happens. So, somewhere out there is one study that has some ugly baggage. Does that discredit all science for all time?

I don't know much about leaded gas issues, but it's not the same issue as lead shot. I know a little bit about the latter, enough not to confuse the two.

For those that care, the topic of lead shot has been hashed many many times. You can search out those threads easily. The facts haven't changed.

Brent


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