doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com St Etienne 12 ga SxS - What's with the barrels?

This guy makes a very affordable gauge for large bores as well (.640-.800). I don't have a good email for him, but you can get in touch with him through trapshooters.com. I can PM you his address if so inclined.

Kenny Helderlein
Oxnard CA

I think you can meassure choke dimensions acurately with a telescopic gauge and a dial (or digital) caliper.
A lot cheaper option than a bore gauge.
With a 0.5-1,0" telescopic gauge you can measure 20, 16, 12 and 10 gauge chokes and the cost of such device is less than $5 dollars.

Best,

Photos of the anonymous St. Etienne proofed 12. (apologize for the quality of the pics-still learning). My understanding of the French gun industry was that virtually every town had its gunsmith who would assemble parts and sell to the well-to-do. Many had no makers marks. This gun was proofed in St. Etienne....where it was actually made is a mystery...nothing to go on except that strange "WONDER" lock and the number 732. It came with what appears to be an original case in crocodile leather...with enough space in the barrel section for a 30" barrel.

The "basket weave" on the stock and fore grip per Larry is typically French (Thanks Larry....learning a lot...and I do like this gun).

That little half grip is also very typically French. The photo of the top lever, with the "stop" on the L side for the lever, makes me think that it might well be made on the old Verney-Carron "Helice" system. The French think highly of those guns. A lot of makers (named and nameless) copied the Helice bolting after the patent expired.

Quite plain, but nice condition! Enjoy it, Argo.

I think you are right about the action, Larry. The front screw in the front wood appears to be a replacement. The barrels/action could have been sourced from Belguim, but, it was definitely proofed in St. Etienne, and it was post 1900.
I highly doubt the case is original to the gun. Cool case, cool gun, but, they simply don't belong together. 18.3, typical 12 gauge size from that part of the world, 65mm chambers. Does not appear to have been proofed in a finished state, likely a small gunmaker produced this one.
I'd invest in a strip and clean from someone like Kirk Merrington, and find out if it fit me and I shot it well. If I did, I'd use it.

Nice hunter shooter.

Best,
Ted

To add to your French gun terminology, the checkering is often referred to as "quadrille Scottish," or something close to that. That also looks very similar to a La Manu horn butt plate. Lastly, the acanthus motif on the fences would be right at home on an Ideal.

Mike

Thanks to the French gun cadre for educating me. I have three shooters in the house this summer....two of which I'm teaching...4 if I count my French Spouse. I only had 2 SxS's, the EM Reilly1898 12 ga hammer gun and my wife's 1905 20 bore Williams Evens. This seemed like a very reasonable way to increase my firepower for three months while I look for a couple of high quality St. Etienne guns. And I do like the way this one feels and swings. Whether I keep it is an open question but I seem to be accumulating a need for more and more.

There is a gunsmith in McLean with a decent reputation. I'm going to talk to him about taking off the butt plate and perhaps doing a thorough cleaning and checking out the gun before it's shot.

Re the case, I think its been with the gun for some time...based on the way the stock/action/triggergard fit in it's compartment...so someone may have modified a case for the gun. The oil soaked part of the channel between the stock compartment and the compartment where I've placed the forestock is a mystery... Perhaps that was for the original gun?

As an example, this group of my VN 5th SFG vets comes to Washington DC for Memorial Day..usually reinforced by a couple of others who couldn't make it this year. (Amazing we can still get in the jungle fatigues tho admittedly the fit is "tight"). This time to vary the agenda, we shot some clays. This is going to be an annual occurrence. I ran out of guns and had to borrow....embarrassing.

(and if you want to know about Vietnam era jungle fatigues...there were three types...
-- Type 1 had the epaulettes and exposed buttons/no rip stop...felt good on the skin; (twin brother on far right).
-- Type 2 had the epaulettes but hidden buttons/no rip stop (me in center + ..noted heart surgeon/former medic on left)
-- Type 3 no epaulettes, hidden buttons, rip stop, fire resistant cloth (The Lt. in the center right) (felt like wearing sand paper at times).

Check out the Rolexes and Montagnard bracelets....Special Forces markers for the era.

Argo, great photos of gun, your buddies and brother. One nice thing about cotton fatigues is that they are moth proof. Those jungle boots appear in good shape as well. The family resemblance of your twin is duly noted.

I was talking with a list member on the phone last week about French guns. The deep relief carving in the acanthus style on the fences seems to be a French standard. I have it on a Brun-Latrige 16 double, but like your gun, very little engraving on the rest of the action where it would seem to be easier to do on the flat surfaces.

Great pic, Argo. thank you very much for your service, and that of your brother and friends.

SRH