doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Bismuth No-Tox Out of Business?

Notice how we battle back and forth name calling and insulting each others intelligence, this argument is not over lead its over the frustration all water fowlers are experiencing because of the alternatives to lead. And now we may lose Bismuth!!!! The only real alternative, other than Bismuth of course, to fit everyone's budget, is steel which has the ballistics of wet leaves and cannot be used in older shotguns. WE are all going to feel the pain or we can all go out and buy Ruger Red Labels!!!!
All the best

That of course is not the only way out. My memory being such as it is, I recalled that back in the 70's there was an outfit that made liners for damascus barrels that allowed one to shoot modern loads in these old barrels.

The company is long out of business. Knowing that a company that is in business to make a buck I called Briley in Texas and asked them.

I can tell you now if there was the demand they would produce.

Can you say group purchase?

Bad science, gone bad!
Times Beach, Missouri was bulldozed by the EPA Superfund, burried and put off the map forever because of a dioxin scare.
Recent science said, oh boy - we've made a big mistake. It is a green space today for family picnics, dogs and so on.
Lead shot should be revisited, unless you cling to YOUR piece of the original true cross of bad science.

I also think that this issue should be revisited. I read the report that Big Al reported on and unless I missed some pertinent points, the numbers of dead due to lead, when compared to the total population of species studied, did not seem to be that high. A greater percentage of traffic deaths occur and we are still driving cars. Perhaps a bad analogy, but I have to tell you that I am still convinced that a desire to ban hunting and/or guns has had a lot to do with the interpretation of the results of the "science." I think we could all agree - no, not all of us, let me retract that - that in this day of statistics and polls, these two items can be manipulated to "prove" any point that is needed to be proven. I look at this in a similar fashion as asbestos remediation. The elbows of water pipes are discovered in old buildings as being covered in asbestos. I say elbows, because this, according to a contractor friend of mine is usually the only place it is found - not completely covering the pipes as some have led others to believe. I know that careful workers can put on the same masks as the remediation crew and rid the building of the material in plastic bags in a matter of a few safe operations. But, with the intervention of the government -coupled with the new businesses dealing in Remediation - several days or weeks and several hundreds or thousands of dollars later, the same result is achieved. Completely sealing a building in plastic wrap to remove the asbestos - is that really necessary - or simply a way of running up the cost of the job. Call me cynical - and you will be correct. Again, just an opinion. By the way - I still buy the overpriced ammunition to enjoy my sport and perhaps if my shooting improved, I might save money!!

READ the report with great care and you will see the problems with it.

Gentlemen, you might find this link interesting...

http://www.huntersbismuth.com/pricing.html

Brent,
Lead is one of the heaviest elements. When it is shot in a swamp of mud it will most probably sink into the mud. Duck's eat water borne grass, crustaceans, and other vegetation. How are waterfowl going to ingest something that's immersed in the mud whilst in pursuit of water borne food? Furthermore, if they accidently take it into mouth why not spit it out? The idea that waterfowl are ingesting something that is not natural to them seems peculiar.

Guys we can sit here and pound Brent into the ground all day long for his stance but it ain't going to change things..... lead shot has disappeared from waterfowl hunting whether from a study that supports a reality or manufacturers a reality it doesn't matter.
All that matters is.....lead is gone and that really sucks!!!!
All the best

S-N-R, most ducks are omnivarous, filling up on anything available, vegetable and animal, all you mention and more, fishes, mussels, sea urchins etc. The superb canvasback is particularly susceptible to lead poisoning because it strains seeds and sedges out of the bottom mud and, according to Audubon, "in heavily shot-over areas 10 per cent of the ducks may carry shot in their gizzards, as many as 96 shot have been found in a single bird." Our blacks feed on seeds until ice and then blue mussels and periwinkles in shallow salt water. I shoot over more hard bottom than soft.

I was pointing out that bad business, is bad business.
The wool was pulled over the publics' eyes, and the duck hunters rolled with the punches.
At the time of the ban there were millions of gallons of toxic materials dumped into the waters by science/big business daily.
Makes you wonder about a season's worth of shot coming from the ol' fart's duck gun.
I for one, at this time was shooting 180g lead - the guys in leaky jonboats fill with 'coys, Labs and fowling pieces fouled our little blue planet! Hehehehe.
We were had.