doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Gun Prices

I am in the process of looking for some guns to form the basis of a nice collection. Are sxs shotguns and classic bolt rifle's prices low...high...normal? Good or Bad time to buy? Is an undesirable but possible Clinton win affecting the prices? Opinions sought.

Thanks in Advance

H

I think so.
JR

Guns are a bad investment, if you are looking to make money. They are a good hobby but only as a hobby if you want to use them or let them sit in a safe as a closet queen to be taken out and admired for their art work like beauty. Make your money elsewhere, don't try to make it in guns unless you have a lot of money and can wait decades to reach better prices. This anti gun fever is not likely to go away ever and the anti hunting, anti shooting in general is getting worse.

This is just my personal opinion and it is based on what I am seeing in the short term. Basic double guns, field grade guns like Sterlingworths, are not moving quickly. Well condition ones will sell if priced low enough but the market is flooded right now with guns with a lot of wear. We call them shooters and beaters. Prices needed to sell them are down but most sellers are not lowering prices to move them so a lot of guns are just sitting there not selling. Mid-range graded double, like Fox A to C grades only sell if either priced attractive or in pristine condition. If well worn they seem to be in the field grade interest and almost never seem to sell. High grade guns are a very small niche market and it hard to read, but they seem to move best at a major auction house.

Why the gloom you wonder. Demographics, Politics, economics, trends in hobbies and shooting opportunities. Demographics is the easiest to understand younger shooters want semi autos or O/U's with all the choke options, recoil reduction and bells and whistles. Pump gun and doubles are "old" and out of favor. There are a lot of old shooters getting to the age that they are not buying but are selling their guns. The Baby Boomers are all getting old at once.

Politics is not a slam against the Democrats but facing facts. They have built a lot of their rise to power on myths of the evil gun and if we just had more gun laws we all would be so much safer. Worse they are going to be able to pack the Supreme Court for the next 20 years in the next four years if they get in. I can see more gun laws coming and that does not help the market prices. In the end it will be no more effective than the Republican War on Drugs was.

Economics is the tricky one because this economy is going well in some places and not at all in others. So if yo live in the right place it is a good time to buy and if you live in the wrong place you might need to sell.

Hobbies and shooting habits just looks at where people spend their entertainment dollars and what they do with their spare time. 30 years ago Tennis was booming where I lived then, now it is just about dead. Horse shoe throwing was a big hobby in my youth with leagues and every park had several to up to 20 pits for use, they are all gone. Bowling was big in my youth and is now just a small interest. Point is that hobbies that were big like hunting and shooting have declined and are not likely to rebound to past levels. Maybe you should have cornered the market on Pokemon's.

"The average man does not buy his gun as an investment, but as a tool to use afield". Not word for word, but close to what the late Captain Paul A. Curtis wrote in 1934- in his book "Guns and Gunning". Many gun "collectors" use the theory of the "greater fool"- they buy a Parker or a Holland & Holland today, at market pricing reflecting on grade, gauge and condition, and plan to move it to another party "down the road" at a mark=up, same philosophy high end gun dealers employ I should guess.

If you want investment advice, get close to Warren Buffett, and stay out of the gun market. KY John has just penned "words of wisdom"-- and older gentlemen gunners, like two of my friends from a pheasant hunting club where I shoot, have passed on, their children and grandchildren do not hunt or shoot clays or paper targets, so the guns go through the auction "mill" and the net cash is divided with the proceeds of the estate.

I only buy used older guns that meet these criteria: (1) They must earn their keep- they are all meant for shooting, or as Hemingway once remarked: "A gun is to shoot with"!!(2) They must have been proven to hold up in the field without breakdowns- Model 12 and 97 Winchester pumpguns, Belgian Browning A-5's, LeFever Nitro Specials, etc.. (3)They must be priced, depending on condition, close to the current Fijestad Blue Book range--and (4) They must be in "wear with care" condition- I stay away from the Del Grego and Turnbull "showpiece" guns, like my hero Hemingway, my guns are all working class, show use but not abuse, and are, like an old friend, 100% reliable. (5)In centerfire BA rifles, I stay with the std. calibers, avoid the wildcats and short-fat Magnums- better re-sale and cheaper ammo. By that I mean, in BA rifles,: .270Win, ,243Win, 30-06, .308..300 Win Mag, .338 Win Mag and .375 H&H Magnum ( my only exception is a G&H custom BA in .35 Whelen, but Remington and others offer factory ammo for this great "Wildcat in cal. 30-- I passed up a near mint 1939 Winchester M71- as they were only offered in .348 Winchester, and that ammo, around my neck of the woods anyway, is fairly scarce and pricey. In shotguns, 95% 12 gauge- I hate to pay the big premium for the 16 and 28 gauges, and like Nash Buckingham, I detest the dinky .410-- You'll' get a better deal in today's used double gun market if you shop for a 12 gauge, and pass up the smaller gauges, at least in my experience. I am not a college man, but I have read both Adam Smith's tome : The Wealth of Nations- so I think I grasp the supply and demand theory-- The major double gun companies made more of their guns in 12 that in all the other gauges popular at any one point in time.

My take on the market is that used custom rifles are quite weak right now as are English SxS's. Both are nothing like they were before the economic slow-down. While this would lead one to believe this might be a great time to expand their collection, if one looks at this from a business perspective they need to ponder whether this is a short term event. Personally, I look it as an buying opportunity but limit it to guns I really love instead of thinking it an investment. Years ago we weren't so selective because you knew it would be a fairly easy re-sell any if you wanted to recoup your cost. I also have noticed that odd calibers or unusual stock dimensions almost make it a show-stopper being nearly impossible to move a gun and so I stay well away from such. Good luck and if you find something you truly want then the time may be right for purchase.

Ed

Fox, you're a joy to read, whether I like 'em or not. Question: you're a real romantic keeping your nose in books with an appreciation of finer things. I'm more rifleman at heart than shotgun shooter although ducks and geese over decoys are more to my game. Does foreign nomenclature of the great 7 X 57 exclude it as an American favourite? Bloody shame.

There are a bunch of fine gun dealers who feel very differently. So do I.

Those are very narrow views of, and responses to, the op's question, not to mention the reluctance or the willingness to let go of money when the right opportunity arises, or to actually do the legwork and research needed to make money in fine/classic guns.

The problem with most double gun enthusiasts is they don't use business sense in their purchases, but rather, their emotion and preferences about what they buy. Sure, you should buy what you like and intend to use, but don't use that criteria to invest in the gun market.

Demographics notwithstanding, there are plenty of years left to make money on fine or classic firearms.
JR

I'm not really actively buying anymore, but if I see one that really appeals to me and I think it is a reasonable price I will still buy. Problem with the 'gun economy' nowadays is they're all good buys compared to what I've paid in the balloon price years. And there seem to be lots of'em that appeal to me...Geo

One man's opinion:

I think custom rifles prices are down and continuing to head down. The same seems to be true for most older domestic and imported SxS's. Also Browning A-5's.

I think it is due to demographic changes. The younger shooters (working, good earners) seem more interested in semi-auto black rifles than in traditional walnut stocked bolt actions. The ones I see prefer gas-operated semi-auto and O/U shotguns, rather than SxS's.

Us old fellas (FOWG's) are dying off, and after the funeral the kids sell (or trade) Grandpa's A-5, Model 12, or Ithaca SxS to buy an AR-15 clone, or a Glock.

Interestingly, and counter to the above thesis, prices of older Colt & S&W revolvers are climbing rapidly ???

.. gold40 -- (a Fat Old White Guy)

Nope- I just forgot to include it when I went with the .270Win- Cactus Jack O'Conner's "numero uno" caliber. I also read a book on Economics (The Dismal Science) by Paul Samuelson. he was always referring to the choice between guns and butter- don't know if he was a hunter or gun collector though.