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Joined: Jan 2002
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King,lying crooked King-you have shown time and time again your are neither a supporter of our-as in American, guns rights or the NRA.
Your praising Comrade Coumo and posting his lies- of the [b]unconstitutional Safe Act was passed in the middle of the night with NO support from any gun owners,proves were you stand !
You have never stood with the NRA or supported them so stop lying your fooling NO ONE.

Your a "foreigner" and have no say,thankfully being a liberal,in American our gun rights.


Hillary For Prison 2018
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"personal attacks only weaken the argument of the attacker and create sympathy for the attacked"

or something like that...

sadly, some here jes don git hit...


keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Originally Posted By: canvasback
Ah,good responses from two of our strongest advocates for government intervention and gun control. Ed, how is your pick Bloomberg doing in the presidential race?


Thankfully Bloombergs gun control millions have been a misfire-kinda like Ed goods torching business (and lying Kings "new job","full of errors and lies"!

Bloombergs's Misfire !

John R. Lott, Jr. says hes fine with that statement. He just wants people to know the truth about what really reduces violence before they vote. He says, I cant find a single study from Bloombergs groups that arent loaded with errors. They have an anti-gun agenda and will lie to achieve it.


Hillary For Prison 2018
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King Brown's posts have absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this special thread. They do not belong here. They do not conform to Dave Weber's stated purpose. King should know better since his prior attempts to deviate from the stated purpose resulted in his posts being deleted.

Same for the recent posts in this thread made by Ed Good. This thread was never intended for discussion. It should be obvious by now that the intent of King and Ed, two of our most persistent anti-gun Trolls, is to disrupt this thread. Here are a few direct quotes made by King Brown and Ed Good. It should be apparent that they are not here to help to preserve the 2nd Amendment:

Originally Posted By: King Brown
It's hardly mean-spirited to note that I'm an Obama supporter. I'm proud of it, apparent here as long as he's been around. He's anti-gun but has kept his legislative gun in his holster to position his party for '16.


Originally Posted By: ed good
does the second amendment prohibit state and local governments from regulating the keeping of arms by the people?

i believe it does not...what say you?


Originally Posted By: King Brown
The Court departed from the original understanding of the Second. The NRA and other groups rejected the original interpretation. Even as late as 1991, the jurist Burger appointed by Nixon said "the Second Amendment has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word 'fraud,' on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime." In 2008, in the District of Columbia v. Heller, what Burger said was fraud was accepted by the court. Interesting stuff.


Originally Posted By: ed good
some view the current version of a well regulated militia as your local unarmed volunteer fire department...augmented by your local armed town police force.

what used to be militia is now your state's national guard, which is under the command of your state's governor... and your state guard is subject to call up and command of the president of the united states...


Originally Posted By: King Brown
Ed, historically the individual "right" to bear arms is relatively new. I believe John Ashcroft in 2002 became the first federal attorney-general to proclaim that individuals should be able to own guns. The Supreme Court in 2008 overturned all mainstream legal and historical scholarship by ruling that there is an individual right to own firearms although with some limits. Obama said it again last week.

I believe that during the previous 218 years the Second meant what it said: firearms shall be held by "the People"---a collective and not individual right---insofar they are in the service of "a well-regulated militia." Was an individual right even mentioned at the Constitutional Convention or in the House when it ratified the Amendment or when debated in state legislatures? I don't think so.


Originally Posted By: ed good
as for the gun control issue...we are the only country in the world that seems to tolerate mass murder, in the name of an individual right...its about time that we as a society realize that we are over gunned with too many super dangerous weapons in the hands of too many super dangerous people... it is long past time to do as the rest of the civilized world has done and simply, disarm...


Originally Posted By: King Brown
Gun control doesn't work? I believe gun control works reasonably generally in Canada, providing a less violent society compared to some others, in good part because of our different culture.


Originally Posted By: ed good
disarm...seems to work for the rest of the civilized world...

why not us?


My post here is 2nd Amendment Informational in nature. It is intended to demonstrate that this forum, and many others, are populated with a number of anti-gun Trolls whose only real purpose is to disrupt gun rights discussions and to stab us in the back. We have several here, but Ed Good and King Brown are the most dedicated anti-gunners we have, in my opinion. They may occasionally pretend to be pro-gun, but their own words over the long run show that they are dishonest as well.

The posts above are just a small fraction of the anti-2nd Amendment rhetoric posted by King Brown and Ed Good. I have saved much of it. I plan to post all of it in the Silent Doubles forum when they die as a permanent epitaph so that everyone remembers who and what they really stand for. They are no more help to us than Teddy Kennedy, Charles Schumer, Michael Bloomberg, Barack Obama, or Sarah Brady. This is not dividing gunners into a caste system as King proclaims. This is understanding that it is foolish to allow yourself to be infiltrated and undermined by the enemy.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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"sadly some here jes don git hit"

in a public forum such as this, crass rudeness and vicious personal attacks only serve to scare others into supporting those who would take away our second amendment rights...

Last edited by ed good; 09/11/16 02:27 AM.

keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Dave set up an additional information thread to help preserve Second Amendment rights with a reminder that posts that didnt move toward that target would be removed.

The first post, from a Washington member with an interest in preserving gun rights, provided an American information source, a Harvard study, that served him as a guide for gun rights.

My contributions citing constitutional debate among Republican and Democrat jurists have not been inaccurate in content although members disagree with their opinions.

Dave didnt provide the thread to promote divisiveness, one side of a contentious issue or as a sounding board for partisan political interests. Preserving the Second is the objective.

This is done by sharing information: whats going on in the courts pro and con, cautionary notes where antis are strengthening and giving credit and support where reason prevails.

Dave didnt make this thread to be a kangaroo court.

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More LIES from anti gun-lying crooked King !

Your view of our gun rights is to GIVE THEM UP !


Again King-you have shown time and time again your are neither a supporter of our-as in American, guns rights or the NRA.
Your praising Comrade Coumo and posting his lies- of the unconstitutional Safe Act was passed in the middle of the night with NO support from any gun owners,proves were you stand ! You have never stood with the NRA or supported them so stop lying your fooling NO ONE.

Your a "foreigner" and have no say,thankfully being a liberal,in American our gun rights.


Hillary For Prison 2018
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from king's post above:

"Preserving the Second is the objective."


keep it simple and keep it safe...
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There are no atheists in foxholes ed. King Brown often pretends to be on our side, but his anti-2nd Amendment, anti-gun, anti-NRA slant always returns with a vengeance... just like you.

King says he is only making accurate contributions here, citing constitutional debate among Democrats and Republicans. But King's own words show us that he is once again telling us lies. Here he is making the totally dishonest claim that Constitutional scholar Mark Levin does not believe in an Individual Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

Originally Posted By: King Brown
Looked up Levin in Wikipedia. Seems like some of my conservative friends. His book on the Court confirms my loosey-goosey characterization of its deliberations. Change and change again, nothing sacred or inviolable, eh?

"Men In Black: How The Supreme Court is Destroying America
Levin authored the 2005 book Men In Black: How The Supreme Court Is Destroying America, in which he advanced his thesis that activist judges on the Supreme Court (from all parts of the political spectrum) have "legislated from the bench." In a review of Men in Black, Commentary magazine's Dan Seligman wrote that Levin asks readers "to identify with 'originalists' who look to the text of the Constitution and the intent of its framers, and to reject the 'activists' who construe the Constitution broadly and are more concerned with getting to their own 'desired outcomes'."

That seems to put him at odds with the NRA-promoted amendment. Senator Stevens, a Republican appointee who served for 35 years on the Court with mostly Republican appointees and under three Republican chief justices, argues for amendments that would reduce the role of federal courts in American political life; in other words, amendments to entrench judicial restraint.

Levin and Stevens, on this evidence, appear to believe that the Second amendment should only apply only to those who keep and bear arms while serving in the militia, and not as an individual right. Stevens goes further in his book, saying democratic processes should decide on the matter, not the judges, as a remedy for "what every American can recognize as an ongoing national tragedy."

All from a Reagan conservative and a Nixon-appointed jurist.


Want to hear what Mark Levin really has to say about the meaning and purpose of the Second Amendment? Take 5 minutes to listen to this:[/color]

http://therightscoop.com/mark-levin-the-...cal-government/

King is not simply reporting facts here. He is distorting and twisting the truth, and frequently adding his own anti-2nd Amendment commentary. You can try to defend him, but no one with a brain is going to see it as anything more than one anti-gunner going to bat for another anti-gunner. You two do that quite often:

Originally Posted By: King Brown
Ed, historically the individual "right" to bear arms is relatively new. I believe John Ashcroft in 2002 became the first federal attorney-general to proclaim that individuals should be able to own guns. The Supreme Court in 2008 overturned all mainstream legal and historical scholarship by ruling that there is an individual right to own firearms although with some limits. Obama said it again last week.

I believe that during the previous 218 years the Second meant what it said: firearms shall be held by "the People"---a collective and not individual right---insofar they are in the service of "a well-regulated militia." Was an individual right even mentioned at the Constitutional Convention or in the House when it ratified the Amendment or when debated in state legislatures? I don't think so.


People who have the "objective of preserving the Second Amendment" don't make statements like these... ever:

Originally Posted By: King Brown
Democracies make choices. Americans accept mass murder to defend an individual right to bear arms in the name of personal freedom.


Originally Posted By: ed good
recognize that there are too many guns in too many hands...reduce those numbers and gun related violence will also be reduced...it is as simple as that...too much of anything is not good.


This post is more 2nd Amendment Informational input. It is to demonstrate, using their own words, that anti-gun Trolls often pose as pro-gunners in order to infiltrate our ranks. King and Ed are not our friends. To say we should welcome them into our tent is about as smart as hiring a convicted pedophile to baby-sit your kids.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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Originally Posted By: ed good
well, we certainly dont need anymore federal gun laws...less would in fact result in a major federal gubnment cost savings, with no ill effect, except to add more people to the unemployment rolls...

however, as the second, ninth and tenth amendments indicate: the states retain their right to regulate internal affairs, so long as that regulation does not conflict with the constitution or its amendments...

so far, with rare exception, challenges at the federal level, to state gun control statutes have been rejected...

if new yorkers dont like their states laws, then let them appeal to their state courts for relief...as it is none of the feds bidness..


That is not the most recent development on the NYS SAFE Act. If you want the most recent development, you should message me.

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