doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Heavy loads in Lightweight L C Smith

Yes, drive and bring the Smith and your own loadings with you. It would be worth the effort knowing that the Smith is not in the hands of a bunch of airline baggage handlers. I drove it from Pennsylvania and while not a high grade LC Smith my barn gun grade Ithaca was safely tucked away with my RST (Nice shot) nontoxic loads I brought.

The comments about the stock are spot on, and glass bedding is probably a good idea. As far as what that Elsie was built for . . . if it dates from later than 1925, the advent of the Super-X--and that 3 3/4 DE, 1 1/4 oz load is the original Super-X load--means that your gun should have been built to take it. Although, as noted previously, not necessarily the wood. That load, by the way, is considered "light" these days by some pheasant hunters, who seem to think they need to push 1 1/4 oz at 1500 fps, or go to 3" mags, to kill pheasants. That particular load, in either 5 or 6 shot, has probably accounted for more dead ringnecks than any other single load on the market. If I'm going to shoot 1 1/4 oz, which I don't use very often, I look for something like the old Super Pigeon formula, which is 3 1/4 DE vs 3 3/4. Drops the velocity to about 1220 fps. RST offers a nice 1 1/4 oz load at 1200 fps, with which I've had good results. But I'm shooting it through a modern SKB sxs. And most of the time, if I'm shooting a 12, I'm more likely to use a 1 1/16 oz Kent load, maybe with a 1 1/8 oz low pressure and moderate velocity reload in the tight barrel.

"if it dates from later than 1925, the advent of the Super-X--and that 3 3/4 DE, 1 1/4 oz load is the original Super-X load--means that your gun should have been built to take it."

Certainly the top rib extension and rotary locking bolt designed by Alexander Brown in 1883 & 1886 (hammerless) could take it, but as Bro. Larry said, not the wood.
http://www.lcsmith.org/faq/rotarylocking.html

1925 Hang Tag; patterned with 1 1/4 oz. and 3 Dr. Eq. The "standard" Field and Inanimate Target Load from c. 1895 until WWI was 1 1/4 oz. 3 1/4 Dr. Eq., in a 2 5/8" or 2 3/4" case. Of course the Live Bird fellas used some boomers, and destroyed some Smiths. And I believe that explains the shift from Smiths to Parkers and Repeaters by the "Top Guns" by about 1900.
See https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D8QkBDo-KIQYk2G8lkE-kHLUybB5NJzBahX_eFKEyuY/preview



The Long Range Wild Fowl WAS designed for Western Cartridge Co. 12g 'Super-X Field' 2 3/4 inch 1 1/4 oz. 3 3/4 dram equiv. shell introduced in 1922. It was NOT designed for the Winchester/Western 1 5/8 oz. 12 gauge 3" magnum introduced in 1935.



I'll freely admit it was a design flaw that Hunter Arms tried to correct

Pre-1913 12g Reg. Frame oil soaked and cracked head of the stock



1936 12g Reg. Frame clearly with more wood

This is why I love my old British 12g live pigeon guns.
A bit heavy to carry but with 1 1/2oz proof, I can feed them any 2 3/4 cartridge.
Still a wand to a big fella like me.
O.M

1921 Trap Grade patterned with 1 1/8 oz. and 3 Dr. Eq.



1939 DeLuxe still patterned with 1 1/4 oz. and 3 Dr. Eq.

Last time I was in South Dakota I saw people who had drove all the way from New Jersey and New York just to go fishing. I really felt sorry for these people however, and I couldn't look them directly in the eye feeling so bad for them thinking how pathetic and empty their lives must be to drive all that way just to fish.

I hope they found some sort of professional help when they got home.

Why not take a few boxes of RST's with you?

Thanks for all the input. I have a "low pressure" one ounce load I worked up a few years ago when I shot the Smith at doves and clays for a couple of years. (Had one of my best averages on doves and one of my worst!) I will either 1. Shoot the Smith with hand rolled one ounce loads of 6s (may have a few 5s from my old duck days) or 2. Buy a long screwdriver so I can take the stock off the BPS so it will still fit in the Ziegel takedown vase. Or 3. Buy one of those leather "gun butt gadgets" to wear on my belt and carry the 686 Baretta. Not going for meat,onlyfor fun, but hesitant to show up with decent SXS with custom loaded shells that were designed to.baby the gun with killing birds a distant second. Especially with the way I have been shooting lately!!!

Drewbie- Trap Grade 6 & 1/4 lbs. FWE and heavy loads. What kinda doobie and you smoking?? Crazy-- RST lite 1 ounce loads in any FW or FWE 12 smith, no matter when it was mfg..

If you're going to fly take some other gun that can easily be replaced like the BSS or your other contraption. They can be readily replaced. Your Smith cannot.

But, to tell you the truth, I don't know how you can leave that Smith at home.