doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com How despicable is choke change?

Machine vs. handmade guns: Where is the line drawn?
What qualifies as handmade versus machine made?

Both Webley & Scott and Bonehill used machinery to a greater extent than your average British gunmaker. But there was still a decent amount of handwork involved. BSA, on the other hand, built military arms. So post-WWI, they had idle machinery. Why not turn out a double made much the same way as their military arms? So they did . . . in 1922. Cost difference? Per Doug Tate in "Birmingham Gunmakers", BSA offered " . . . the basic model for 11 guineas, or less than half what a basic handmade gun cost at the time." The Ejector Deluxe went for 19 guineas. And they didn't cut corners on materials. But, says Tate: "The gun appears to have been a modest success in the colonies, but it never really caught on in England." Major Burrard described it as "a clumsy gun". Think a comparison between a Stevens 311 and a Parker Trojan, Fox Sterlingworth, Elsie or Ithaca Field Grade. Except in the case of your typical British double, there was less machine work than on our American classics.

GLS, I'd submit that all machines are in fact only tools.

Where is the machine where iron ore, a tree, a bone, and perhaps a horn are inserted and the 'make gun' button pushed?

Purdey must own a mill by now, and certainly drop hammers have been used to make forgings since the village smithy first invented one.

For machines that do the thinking for the operator, and the pitfalls thus encountered, Google 'Airbus accidents'.

It's interesting that many Pieper guns around the turn of the century were advertised as being "Machine Made". Now, they're considered JABCs. I read a while back that the " Big Three" in England had all gone to CNC several years ago. It's probably totally eliminated the job title "Action Filer"..

I was reminded of Mottel Kamzoil in "Fiddler on the Roof" looking up from his new -to- him sewing machine and announcing with glee: "No more hand made clothes!- now all of them shall be made by machine."

Methinks there will always be a market for that which is least removed from the human hand.


Mike

So much for "Tradition"!!

Ken, I visited the H&H factory in 2001. Yes, they had CNC machines. But there was still one heck of a lot of work being done by hand: With files, engraving tools, checkering tools, etc.

Even in the world of handmade split cane fly rods, hobbyists no longer have to depend solely on a hand plane to taper the Tonkin cane strips as machines at home save hours of work by milling a rough taper to where a hand plane is used to finish the job.

As someone who builds split bamboo fly rods I would somewhat disagree with this. A beveler can save you some time roughing strips but not hours.

If it were my gun I would leave it as is. But that's just me.

Matt

I'd like to see detailed photos of the gun's barrel flats, so we could confirm as to whether it was procured from a source higher up the food chain than BSA.

I suspect it was.


Best,
Ted