doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Winchester 21 question

On the barrel lump there is a spring loaded piece that seems to latch to the receiver. What is the purpose of this piece?

The M21 can "fool" a unknown owner into thinking his gun is becoming loose- but in an homage to the British and their "assisted opening" feature found on certain Best guns as an option, the WRA design team added this to "assist" the opening of the breech when the lever is swung to the right of top tang center.

I have my late father's M21- a field grade 12 with SST and AE he bought used (owner traded it in on a browning 20 Superposed) in 1949-1950. It has 28" barrels and is choked imp. cyl. right barrel, imp. mod. left barrel, and is marked "3" chambers" on the left barrel side at the breech area- but it is a field grade, NOT a Heavy Duck M21. I only shoot 2&3/4" loads in it, and since Dad gave it to me in 1980, I have never changed the trigger selector button in the trigger blade. Nice guns, but a bit over-priced in today's secondary market, IMO.

The British sporting set, when using a matched pair of double guns and a loader, apparently felt that time was saved when the Gun- opened his shotgun, ejecting the fired shell(s) and passed it over to his loader for the loaded and closed second gun--Anyway, that's the reason for the spring in the barrel lug--

It's the barrel stop. When the barrels are installed on the receiver, it keeps them from falling off the gun.

[quote=Run With The Fox
Nice guns, but a bit over-priced in today's secondary market, IMO.
-- [/quote]

This is an understatement! I live in NJ, and field grade Model 21s are running in the $6000-$7000 range. When you consider that you can buy many wonderful English box locks and some side locks for considerably less, one must ask what justifies the cost of the Model 21.

I wish I knew, but I don't pretend to understand the M21 market-just glad I have one- thanks mucho, Dad. I went to my 1938 Winchester Sales manual page 40- shows the cross-sectioned details of the adjusting screw and locking bolt, but no details on the inset spring in the barrel lug-- The third graph left column- halfway down- "It is particularly desirable for women shooters who have difficulty exerting strength enough to break (open-my add) the ordinary double gun. This ease in operation should be capitalized and is an excellent selling argument"!~ Perhaps this is why the late Ernest Hemingway bought 2 used 20 gauge M21's- one for third wife Martha Gellhorn Hemingway, and after the divorce and she left the gun with Ernest, he had acquired another one with 2 barrel sets from A&F, and his last wife, Mary Welsh Hemingway used that-- Personally, I believe the Ithaca NID model is the easiest boxlock double to open, recock and close--

To respond to the comment made by my "Parkerista Amigo"-- Sr. Murphy- yes- true, but perhaps this was addressed by the final sentence in the afore-mentioned paragraph circa 1938-- "The hinge on the double gun is extremely strong and cannot be ripped open by slamming the barrels open (I assume, with the forearm in place)-a thing that is not permissible in competitive double guns.

As my Dad's M21 (sn 15992) was made before WRA made it a special order item sometime in the 1960's (at a $1000 list price) and I am NOT familiar with those later production M21's- they modified the spring assist-barrel stop mechanism in the barrel lug- Never having seen one, I cannot say. M21- AISI 4140 alloyed steel heat treated and single fitted after that process, had to be an expensive fitting operation- not that the "double fitted" with case hardened AISI 1020 forged receivers and components as employed by A.H. Fox, Parker Bros., Hunter Arms and Ithaca was not--

I am loath to advise other gents here how to spend their gun $- but I would prefer to find a comparably equipped Ithaca NID and buy and use that- If you bought a decent field grade M21 for, say, $6K, and the "wolf came to your doorstep", would you be able to liquidate that very same M21 for what you paid for it??

There's no justification. To say you own a M21 mostly. Snobbishness, speculation or gone-wild consumerism explains it. As you say and The Fox implies there are lots of better guns at half the price.

I agree there are cheaper box-locks but as an shooter of English ,Parker, Fox ,and NID,s. I believe the M21 is stronger and well fit more reliable. The Fox Gun comes close.

No argument there. For the one box of shells in pheasant season shooter, the extra longevity of the M21 is probably not a factor-but they are rugged- I have never needed to adjust the set screw to take up any "looseness" in the action, and from 1980 to about 1995, when we had great area pheasant and grouse populations, I shot Dad's M21 almost exclusively with my Labs- both here in MI and in MT as well-they are to boxlock doubles what the great M12 pumpgun is to repeaters- Vade Mecum--

Why must anyone "justify" their choice of double to you?

I don't believe that King Brown meant that anyone needs to justify their choice to him, but, rather the price and what they are getting for their money to themselves.