doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Manufrance Ideal Type Anglais - Comments anyone?

Nice blend of your attempted Spanish-Germanic phrasing, Eddie. RWTF

Is that a different version of a "rising bite"?
Mike

Wow! Unlike anything I have seen before. Or in any publication.

https://drouot.com/l/20734817-?actionParam=recherche

Idéal de 1899 en calibre 24

Adjugé 8800 € +27% de frais

Thanks FAB500. This is definitely Moroccan work. I may be able to have the Arabic on the barrels translated.

Mercu FAB; C'est définitivement du travail marocain; Je peux peut-être faire traduire l'arabe sur les canons.

Gene

What a story. Unbelievable gun. Every Manufrance “Lunette” gun I have ever held was black powder, or, semi-smokeless powder proofed. Documentation on this one shows a 1901 date of manufacture. Wonder what level of proof it carries?

Best,
Ted

I didn't read the whole description - my error. Here It is.....the gun is double proofed; the barrels at 105 cm = 41 inches long. The Arabic inscription apparently reads "This is a gift offered in memory of the victory by Durayd to his friend Hajj Abdel Hakim ben Sheikh."

At the time (late 1890's) France was fighting a pretty constant war along the Moroccan/Algeiran frontier against bandits and raiders. They had embarked upon an effort involving slowly aggrandizing the frontier area, actually renaming some towns they'd taken so as not to admit to encroaching on Moroccan territory. I'll look up "Durayd" in my Moroccan history books.



Important fusil Ideal, modèle de luxe et de présent, deux coups, calibre 24-65, extracteur. Longs canons juxtaposés damasquinés d’or à la bouche et aux tonnerres d’arabesques. Marqués à l’or sur fond amati en arabe et en lettres gothiques « Fusil L’Idéal Breveté dans tous les Pays » « Manufacture française d’armes et cycles de St Etienne ».
-- Poinçons d’épreuve pour poudre pyroxylée,
« Acier Hercule trempé
» double épreuve, de calibre 15,0 et de MOF.
-- Bascule poinçonné MOF » et pontet à lunettes damasquinés en suite.
-- Détentes dorées.
-- Sureté du 1er type Longuesse et crosse sculpté de rinceaux feuillagés.
-- Manque la bretelle automatique.
-- Crosse à décor incrusté d’arabesques et croissant en métal blanc et nacre (petit manque) Plaque de couche en bakélite siglée « MF
» Longueur canon : 105 cm. Longueur totale : 147 cm.
-- A.B.E. (Petite oxydation des canons à nettoyer).
-- N°14827 (produite en 1899) Arme de catégorie D (brevet de 1889 pour le modèle à pontets à lunettes), produite en 1899 (selon les chiffres de productions cités par Jean Claude MOURNETAS dans son ouvrage « Le fusil de chasse Idéal »)
-- L’inscription en arabe peut être traduite par « Ceci est un cadeau offert en souvenir de la relation de la victoire par Durayd à son ami le Hajj Abdel Hakim ben Cheikh »

I cannot find any prominent French official from the late 1890's in Algeria or Morocco named Durayd. However, this is a transliteration back to French of an Arabic inscription.

I'm wondering if this might be Charles Dorian. He was Parliamentary deputy for the Loire region. He accompanied the famous Foreau-Lamy mission 1898-1900, presented to the French Parliament (which was anti-colonialist in general) as a "scientific expedition" but which was in fact military to its core organized by the Army in Algeria. It crossed the Sahara and joined up with two other columns, one from Brazzaville and one from Senegal/Mali to take the Lake Chad area.

Dorian left the column in what is now Niger and set out west to try to link up with the Senegal column. He wound up continuing on down to the Atlantic coast in Dahomey which he reached on 18 May 1900. It's still possible for him to have made his way back to France in time to commission the decoration of the gun.

Sunset in N'Djamna (old Fort Lamy) from a few years ago. That's the Chari River (during Rainy season - November-December) heading down to Lake Chad right before the junction with the Logone River (border with Cameroon)....I spent some time there.

Double proof, is a bit vague, in this case, considering the era. There were several proof powders available, and, black powder proof, if that is what the customer wanted. Manufrance also proofed it’s own wares, although I have no idea to what level.

A picture of the flats would be very interesting.

Best,
Ted

-- Poinçons d’épreuve pour poudre pyroxylée,

By the way Ted, I thought you didn't like guns with gold on them?