doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com How to determine English gun grade

Frank Otte mentions Ben Wise's Royal Grade Greener hammer gun, which is devoid of engraving. I own the mate for that gun in eight gauge, a nitro proved 3 3/4" chambered gun proved for 2 1/2 ounces of shot, also described in Graham Greener's correspondence as a Royal Grade also devoid of engraving but with beautiful wood and exception fit and finish, like Ben's gun. Ben will not sell me this gun, nor would I sell my eight, at this time.

Best Grade:

1.A term used by gun dealers to increase the selling price of the gun

2. Generally a 20-30% increase by applying the "Best" to any quality level of gun.

Webster

Continuing on.

The Brit Gun Trade built guns in shops ranging from "a single or couple of guys" to hundreds of workmen factories. Very few, even masters, developed the range and level of skills necessary to make a best work gun economically. Division of labor was widely practiced. Shops ordered work from smaller and larger shops to gain craftsmanship uneconomical to keep in-house. The trick was in obtaining commissions for best work guns; anyone could get one out (with the help of other shops and/or out-workers). Best work guns were NOT built by elves in quaint cottages by flickering candle light.

The Brit Trade guns are "honest" in that they almost always were built to be what they appeared to be. I've never encountered a factory "tarted up" Brit gun; aftermarket, yes, factory, no. That said, we must understand that there are exceptions to any rule you can make. We do not need to try to deal with all the possible exceptions, though. If you bump into something outside your experience or understanding, leave it alone, at least until you are able to research it adequately. Never take a "flier" hoping for a bargain - odds are much against you.

The current values for guns are set by the "market." The market has, over the years, decided what it will pay for the various names, grades, and conditions. My system has organized the market decisions into a more quickly learned form. The guys who handle thousands of guns a year develop intuition as to what a gun is and what it is worth. Unless you live near a major dealer, you will need to study auction sites, estimates, and realized prices.

Now, to the question. A best work gun will have 75% + coverage of high quality engraving, your first clue. The stock wood will be of high quality and usually well colored and figured - second clue. The stock will be shaped, checkered, and finished at a very high level of craftsmanship. Barrel striking and finish will be excellent. The action will also be well fit and finished. Unfortunately, there is no "short course" that will give you knowledge of all the above.

As grade goes down all of the above are subject to lower quality craftsmanship and/or materials. An "A" grade gun will have a slight reduction in engraving coverage and quality. Wood quality will often go down a notch, as will metal finish. A "C" or "D" grade gun may have no engraving, plain wood, a few "boo-boos" in the metal finish, etc. "B", "C", and "D" grade guns are often built on actions requiring less hand work and were often bought-in from the factories.

Questions to this point? More if anyone is interested.

DDA

"Tarted up" caught my eye, in that when I read it it sparked me to think whether I have or not. While you admit exceptions are possible, the only excption I could think of were guns restored with new casecolour, and perhaps nitre bluing of parts not originally blued.

I wonder why we see "upgraded" or "customized" American sxs, but not British?

I can't agree with the point above on engraving; It is not all that uncommon to find true BEST guns by the big names with either very basic, or even no engraving. The BEST relates to the materials and workmanship, not the addition of engraving. I would however agree that IF engraved, the engraving of a BEST gun should be BEST quality engraving (regardless of what design or type is used).

In the opinion of contributors to this topic; What constitutes best engraving ?
O.M

Engraving to the highest standard according to peers, including aesthetic sense of person paying for it?

Some artists would make paintings of excrement oozing from cows if paid at their going rate to do it.

An affront to a gun isn't best engraving to me.

True class is quite and understated. Often overlooked in a crowd of glitter. But once discovered by a mature eye will become the chosen queen.

What engraving is best is subjective as it is a matter of taste. Some really love the classic Purdey Rose and Scroll, some don't. Some love deep relief, some don't. Some worship high quality banknote quality pictures, some don't.

What I believe can be quantified as best is 100% coverage, in other words all metal surfaces covered with some type of engraving.

Further that best engraving has some density of coverage. An example of what I mean by this might be to compare a Purdey Rose and scroll which requires a large amount of time because lines or dots per inch is high (if it was printed) vs less detailed B grade engraving on a Fox. This does not mean one is more beautiful than the other just that technically the one engraving style requires more time and skill to achieve.

In terms of pictures or relief when engraved the actual depiction is more realistic in best engraving than more cartoonist in lesser quality. I.E. The ducks look like ducks. The quail look like quail. I caveat to say sometimes Cartoons are engraved on a gun and if done deliberately as in bank note style that might still be considered best engraving.

While I agree that understatement in engraving can be beautiful too. For me best engraving is 100%, highly detailed, if pictures used-then realistic, and overall balanced, proportional, and without obvious errors.

Best engraving? Wait a sec while I remove the solid gold grillz from my mouth and get out of my Escalade. Every homie knows best engraving is bank note quality pics of the Goddess Diana and a few of her nude friends. Make that a bunch of her nude friends.