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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,494 Likes: 396
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,494 Likes: 396 |
We're on email and get catalogs from MidwayUSA, Cabela's and Bass Pro. All are pushing their clothing and sown goods. Our daughter-in-law is a purchasing executive for a large international company and says the markup on clothing produced in Pacific Asian rim countries is shocking. That $200 pair of boots marked down to $150 they are still making $120 on. See the folding knife with Winchester brand for $5 at Wal-Mart? Wal-Mart probably paid .75 cents. The Winchester name on the package cost more than the knife. It's those evil big companies and that evil China. And Cabela's is printing money as profits, right? Oh, they aren't? These kinds of generalizations about mark up on foreign made goods reek of lack of specific knowledge of the subject and result in wild misinformation becoming received truth. I'm including your idiotic comment too Jaegermeister. The fault lies not with the brand, or the retailer. The fault lies with the consumer and the choices he/she makes every day in the marketplace. I say this as a result of a 35 year career in consumer products, specifically footwear, clothing and sporting goods hardware, during the time frame when offshore production became a thing. Bibbyman, consider this....if the name Winchester is worth more than the actual product, whose fault is that? Walmart isn't stupid, neither is the company who licensed the Winchester name to use on knives or the company with the Winchester name rights. They all know the value it carries in the marketplace, where consumers spend the money on a well known branded product rather than the superior item with a name not recognized. And your example of boots is just flat out wrong. In a very simplistic way, and anyone with manufacturing experience will understand this, there is the unit cost of production, there is the capital costs associated with design and development, there are the capital costs associated with creating molds and production lines and these have to be amortized over the life of the product, something that gets shorter all the time, thanks to the short attention span of consumers, then there is transportation, centralized or regional distribution, packaging, the costs associated with maintaining an inventory and end of run mark down costs. And all that is before it gets to the retailer. Your $200 boots....they cost the retailer around $100 to get onto his shelves....the cheapest might be $90 and the most expensive might be $110. Average Gross Profit for large national retailers are going to be in the 40-45% range. If a hard goods only kind of place, think 35%. If a small specialty retailer, they need around 50% to make a profit. At a mark down to $150, the retailer is likely taking a loss on the product, when rent, staff and other overheads are taken into account. And the supply chain, they may not be taking the hit of 25% off the retailer is on that pair. But it sure affects the choices the retailer will make next time he places a stocking order. And so, the supply chain has to figure out all the way back to the design studio, how to tweak or completely overhaul that product so it sells at the price the retailer needs to get to stay in business. You guys down there are all gung ho about bringing manufacturing back to America. And I'm all for level playing fields. But the downside is you are going to be in for sticker shock if you get your way. The relentless drive to manufacture off shore has been, at it's heart, a drive to keep prices down for consumers, because that's what they want.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,381 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,381 Likes: 1 |
We're on email and get catalogs from MidwayUSA, Cabela's and Bass Pro. All are pushing their clothing and sown goods. Our daughter-in-law is a purchasing executive for a large international company and says the markup on clothing produced in Pacific Asian rim countries is shocking. That $200 pair of boots marked down to $150 they are still making $120 on. See the folding knife with Winchester brand for $5 at Wal-Mart? Wal-Mart probably paid .75 cents. The Winchester name on the package cost more than the knife. It's those evil big companies and that evil China. And Cabela's is printing money as profits, right? Oh, they aren't? These kinds of generalizations about mark up on foreign made goods reek of lack of specific knowledge of the subject and result in wild misinformation becoming received truth. I'm including your idiotic comment too Jaegermeister. The fault lies not with the brand, or the retailer. The fault lies with the consumer and the choices he/she makes every day in the marketplace. I say this as a result of a 35 year career in consumer products, specifically footwear, clothing and sporting goods hardware, during the time frame when offshore production became a thing. Bibbyman, consider this....if the name Winchester is worth more than the actual product, whose fault is that? Walmart isn't stupid, neither is the company who licensed the Winchester name to use on knives or the company with the Winchester name rights. They all know the value it carries in the marketplace, where consumers spend the money on a well known branded product rather than the superior item with a name not recognized. And your example of boots is just flat out wrong. In a very simplistic way, and anyone with manufacturing experience will understand this, there is the unit cost of production, there is the capital costs associated with design and development, there are the capital costs associated with creating molds and production lines and these have to be amortized over the life of the product, something that gets shorter all the time, thanks to the short attention span of consumers, then there is transportation, centralized or regional distribution, packaging, the costs associated with maintaining an inventory and end of run mark down costs. And all that is before it gets to the retailer. Your $200 boots....they cost the retailer around $100 to get onto his shelves....the cheapest might be $90 and the most expensive might be $110. Average Gross Profit for large national retailers are going to be in the 40-45% range. If a hard goods only kind of place, think 35%. If a small specialty retailer, they need around 50% to make a profit. At a mark down to $150, the retailer is likely taking a loss on the product, when rent, staff and other overheads are taken into account. And the supply chain, they may not be taking the hit of 25% off the retailer is on that pair. But it sure affects the choices the retailer will make next time he places a stocking order. And so, the supply chain has to figure out all the way back to the design studio, how to tweak or completely overhaul that product so it sells at the price the retailer needs to get to stay in business. You guys down there are all gung ho about bringing manufacturing back to America. And I'm all for level playing fields. But the downside is you are going to be in for sticker shock if you get your way. The relentless drive to manufacture off shore has been, at it's heart, a drive to keep prices down for consumers, because that's what they want. Me head hurts now. Please stop confusing me with facts. We want quality of life, prosperity, services and quality products Hecho en Los Estados Unidos while paying low taxes and low prices for products we get. Comprende usted? From the Land of Shangri-la, bless your heart.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,995 Likes: 402
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,995 Likes: 402 |
James, I agree with your post. One related point you left out is wage stagnation. Americans were much less concerned with the cost of products when our incomes were increasing faster than the pace of inflation. Wages have barely ticked up in the last 15 plus years while inflation continues to climb. It comes down to math. When you have less to spend you have to get the most out of what you have. Steve
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
Si, amigo- Ya Lo Crelo. En las palabras de Sr. Don Ernesto, en la libra- Verdad a el primo luz (Africa) "En La Boca de la Puta Grande" si como no? El Zorro
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,494 Likes: 396
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,494 Likes: 396 |
James, I agree with your post. One related point you left out is wage stagnation. Americans were much less concerned with the cost of products when our incomes were increasing faster than the pace of inflation. Wages have barely ticked up in the last 15 plus years while inflation continues to climb. It comes down to math. When you have less to spend you have to get the most out of what you have. Steve Steve, you are absolutely correct. If I gave the impression I think consumers are doing something wrong, I didn't mean to. Everyone does the best they can and for most people, the cost of what they are buying is hugely important. Stagnating incomes just makes that more apparent.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,704 Likes: 103
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,704 Likes: 103 |
My impression is that the big box stores 'buy' no inventory at all. Instead, they allow producers to use shelf space. When a customer buys the product, then the producer (or the middleman)gets paid. Look for the product with the greatest shelf space and that's where the most profit is, dog food for instance...Geo
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,521 Likes: 20
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,521 Likes: 20 |
We had a Gander Mountain open here (suburban Philadelphia) back in September. First day, lines out the door. First week, parking lot crowded. First month, parking lot fairly full. Today, park within 10 spaces of the door any weekday.
Prices are high, quality seems suspect. Work force doesn't know the products - mostly college age kids and elderly.
Local gun dealers are doing far better on variety and price for used firearms.
Doesn't bode well.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,536 Likes: 170
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,536 Likes: 170 |
Well another one bites the dust Gander in distress Cabela's sold to Bass Pro Shops NO REJOICING in this frame of thought They served many of the uninitiated hoard Sorry to see the changes The shooting/hunting community is losing another element Mike
Last edited by skeettx; 02/16/17 01:12 PM.
USAF RET 1971-95
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,733 Likes: 492
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,733 Likes: 492 |
I am happy to not have a dog in this hunt. Box stores serve a need but are not the best or only place to shop. If Gander Mountain fails the only one I feel sorry for are the workers and with their minimum level skill levels, they will find another retail job where they are under whelming in their knowledge base, fairly quickly. Investors and management should have done a better job with their planning. High margin, low volume is not a good business model because most over estimate the volume side. As to the Bass Pro-shop merger the more I read about it the less likely it sounds to be going forward. Like most here I long for the small mom and pop gun shops but most of them are gone.
Value is where you find it and I am more interested in quality than price these days. At my age and income, saving five bucks on a shirt, which will last more than a year is not that big of a deal. When you are 20 you want it to last forever and when you are young you don't have too much money to waste. When you are 60 you want it to be comfortable, do what you expect and last a few years so you have an excuse to try something else. I still buy a lot from LL Bean and give it to my kids after a few years use if they like it. Or just buy them one for Christmas, birthdays or any occasion that I can dream up. After all it is better to give it to them now when I can enjoy them using it than wait for them to get it after I am dead.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,345 Likes: 391
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,345 Likes: 391 |
The Socialists, Leftists, and Trump haters here obviously recognize that wage stagnation is a driving force behind the relentless pursuit of cheaper products which are manufactured in low wage countries. And they are quite correct.
What they will never admit is the fact that having as many as 20 million (or more) illegal undocumented aliens here is a driving force behind the wage stagnation they complain about. The "official" number of illegals has been stuck on 11 million for over a decade as the floodgates remained open to over 40,000 more illegals each month in Texas alone, so we should be bright enough to do the math and know that's a lie. Apprehensions by Customs Enforcement along the southern border were at least 26,248 illegals in October of 2016, and we know only a small percentage are caught coming in. The only reason the immigration system is broken is because we lost the will to enforce the working system we had. Passing new immigration laws will do nothing if the wall isn't built and the flood reversed by enforcing the law.
Add in greater manufacturing efficiencies due to automation, and you have a recipe for a disappearing middle class. Tax the hell out of corporations and that dwindling middle class in order to pay for an expanding Welfare State which supports both citizens and illegals, and you end up where we are now... swirling down the drain and crying that it can never be fixed. Meanwhile, the Lefties who whine the most will be the ones who fight any attempt to fix things.
A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.
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