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A truly fascinating thread - thank you for bringing it to my attention, Argo.

Mine is a damascus barrelled, 30", 12g, side lever hammer gun, s/n 20467, bearing the barrel inscription "EM Reilly & Co, Oxford Street London & Rue Scribe Paris"

[img]http://thumbsnap.com/2uJCbX4V[/img]

From its condition, I suspect the gun may have spent some time resting in a gun room for many years before resurfacing.

Recently reproofed (2 3/4", nitro) so very much one to enjoy (albeit I limit load weight and avoid "punchy" cartridges).

A near identical gun is currently available, restocked, from Watson Bros in London. I think my wife may attempt to murder me in the event that I try to compose a pair...

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==================================================================================================
20467 (Autumn 1876)



Irrational, I'd estimate 20467 as having been made in Autumn 1876, possibly September/October

Analysis:

— 15270 is the first Paris address on a rib I've found; he opened Rue Scribe in late Jan/early Feb 1868.

— 26584 is the last gun I've found with a Paris address; he closed Rue Scribe about August 1886.

Between Feb 68 and Aug 86 (222 months) he numbered about 11,200 guns; that would be about 50+ numbered guns a month at a steady rate (and it obviously fluctuated).(on reflection this production rate stayed pretty steady from 1868 to 1898 - perhaps this was the maximum he could produce?)..say 620 a year. So just assuming this is correct, your gun would be about the 5,200th numbered gun produced after he opened Rue Scribe… 104 months after Feb 1868 = 8 years 8 months. So I’d estimate it to be have been made in Fall 1876.

As an accuracy check…the next marker is 26584, the last SN I've found produced at Rue Scribe in Aug 1886, about 6,000 serial numbers after yours. At 50 a month that would be 120 months of production = 10 years. 10 years before August 1886 = Autumn 1876.

To check this further, here are patents Reilly regularly used on his guns. It should not have the Mills 3rd bite patent but may have the 1875 patents. (note: Reilly would build whatever was ordered. I've found a muzzle loader built in the mid-1880's).

1872 - Patent: Anson's fore-end fastener patent no. 3791

1874 - Patent: Needham patented a hammerless, barrel-cocking gun which was also the first ejector in 1874.

1875 - Patent: W.M. Scott's patent 3223

1875 - Patent: Anson & Deely patent; the first hammerless gun with top lever.

1878 - Patent: Mills 3rd bite patent no 4980

I personally think Reilly's are currently a very good bargain in English 19th century shotguns...but this again is just a layman's observation. And, you'll get dozens of experts here responding to your last sentence saying in effect, "You can never have too many SxS's."

Here is Irrational's Reilly:


Last edited by Argo44; 09/11/18 09:04 PM.

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Thank you, sir, that's very much appreciated - I'd been guessing circa 1875 so we appear to be in quite close agreement (albeit your approach is rather more reasoned).

I wholeheartedly agree that you can never have too many SxS's: I have no plans to buy an o/u, if for no other reason that space in the current cabinet is fully spoken for, but one day a 19th C example may creep in to the inevitable 2nd cabinet...

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==================================================================================================
27377 (1885), 27854 (early 1886)

EDIT: Dates changed due to change in 1st SN for rue Scribe and closure of rue Scribe in August 1885 vice 1886

I was asked by a member on the board for my opinion on the age of two EM Reilly's. I've received no pictures or heard nothing more but here is my response which might help others to date their Reilly SxS's.

27377 - Nov 1887
27854 - Aug 1888

Here's the reasoning. 26584 is the last SN I can find with both the Rue Sribe Paris address concurrent with one of the Oxford street addresses. He closed Rue Scribe in August 1886 I believe. I estimate that he was numbering about 600-640 guns a year at this point, say 50+ a month.

26584.................27200.....................27840
08/1886..............08/1887..v..............08/1888.v
.....................................27377..................27854
.....................................11/87...................08/88

If he closed Rue Scribe earlier in the year it'll pull those SN's back a few months. Both are so close to the marker number 26584 that you can be pretty sure both estimates are close.

Last edited by Argo44; 09/22/18 01:56 PM.

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==================================================================================================
1837-98 - Reilly and and airguns - 1st post (Photos hi-jacked by Photobucket - NEVER FORGET)


To try to define the chronology, history and date Reilly serial number more precisely, I’m going to enter some Reilly air gun canes. They seemed to have survived more intact - probably because they weren’t hauled into the woods and the cases were kept in substantial houses.

Reilly’s were specialists in air-guns and in “1850” wrote a treatise on air guns. (I think it to be written at least a year earlier in 1849 or even 1848). (Text below)

http://www.network54.com/Forum/681456/message/1493983648



He identified himself as “Reilly, Junr” (presumably Reilly, junior)….
The address of the firm was No. 502, New Oxford Street, “removed from 316 Holborn,” London. The title page of this Treatise is important because it still has “removed from 316 Holborn” on the title page. They moved to Oxford St. in March 1847. The Reilly’s quit using the Holborn name about a year after the move to Oxford Street.

Here are some Reilly air guns arranged as best I can per the label’s by chronological order. Only one has a Serial Number but that one may be important.

1). Xxxxx
Name: J.C. REILLY, 316 HOLBORN, LONDON
Description: .41 CAL; RIFLED BBL, BORE GOOD, BLACK PAINTED FINISH, HORN CANE HANDLE, COMES WITH ORIGINAL PUMP, FIXED SIGHTS, ROUND BALL LOADS INTO A ROTATING BREACH, BUTTON TRIGGER, COCKING KEY INCLUDED, MAKER'S MAHOGANY TAKE DOWN CASE, BRASS MUZZLE PROTECTOR

Comment: Reilly was at316 High Holborn from Aug 1835 to March 1847 (see history - 4th post in this line). This is the first extant 316 High Holborn label I've seen.
https://ellwoodepps.com/joesph-charles-reilly-air-gun-cane.html
Comment:






2). Xxxxx
Name: J.C. REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBURN, LONDON
Description: This cane rifle consists of two parts painted black enamel which measures just under 38 inches including the screw on horn handle. The center joint ring is marked "REILLY 316 HOLBORN LONDON IMPROVED". The pump is screwed onto the upper portion to fill the chamber with air. The pump consists of an iron tube with brass ends and a screw on iron handle for the pump. The tube is marked "J.C. REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON". The lower portion of the cane houses the breech and firing mechanism. After the chamber is "pumped up", the two pieces are screwed together and the muzzle end has a brass tip which screws off and the attached wooden barrel plug comes out. The breech is opened by a sliding lever and is loaded with a round bullet through a round hole on top of the shaft. A key is then used to cock it and a small post "trigger" pops out of the side. The trigger is simply pushed to fire the rifle. The barrel is rifled and gauges at 38 caliber. It is equipped with a small blade front and notched rear sights.

Comment: Reilly was at High Holburn from 1835 to March 1847.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/55/64/reilly-co-edward-m-air#detail




3). 7801 ??
Name: REILLY, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: REILLY LONDON A RARE CASED 28-BORE PERCUSSION COMBINATION WALKING-STICK GUN serial no. 7801. circa 1845 comprising of a 28 3/4in. re-browned octagonal damascus rifle barrel signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON` (renewed) small dove-tailed crescent fore-sight blued standing notch rear-sight with one folding leaf a 29 3/4in. re-browned damascus round shot barrel with octagonal breech section (unsigned) and an unsigned octagonal 32-bore 3in. re-browned damascus pistol barrel (probably a later addition) matching period London proofs together with a percussion under-hammer squared boxlock action with guarded trigger the top-tang signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON`

Comment:
--this is an early Reilly after they moved to 502 New Oxford Street in late March 1847. It has he picture of 502 indicating it is post 1848-9. For the first 12 months or so after the move the wrote "removed from Holborn" on the labels.
--The SN is interesting because if his air-gun canes were numbered in the same series as his long guns, this is the earliest number after the move. I’ve speculated that EM and JC just jumped numbers up from about 4.500 to 8,400 after the move. However, this cane if the SN is in the long-gun series will change that.
-- (the auction house is wrong; the cane can’t be 1845 and have the New Oxford Street address - see the chronology)
-- Note: I’ve found a JC REILLY shotgun with the 502 New Oxford Street address with a serial number 7280. This is outside of the EM Reilly numbering system - the earliest I found was 8463, which had the label "502 New Oxford" plus "removed from Holborn." (posted below) This makes me wonder whether Joseph Charles and E.M split their serial numbering at this time. i.e. J.C. may have continued with his own numbering system and let EM begin anew with SN’s after 8,400). This will be investigated further. (or it could be that the "7" is actually a "9")
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/aucti...f6-a4340134dc99





Here are two S&W revolvers sent to India for a Marahajah with same label: - date of the S&W models may help date the label.



(for historians to compare labels this from Serial numbered guns)"
8463 - (1848’s?); !!!!!!!!!! Earliest SN after move to 502 Oxford !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Address: Reilly, New Oxford Street, London (case label has “removed from Holborn);
Description: .390, percussion, double express rifle. Enfield type rifling, muzzle loading; (breaks down) with patch box in butt;
Comment: This is the first confirmed use of the Oxford Street address on a Reilly gun..and the label "removed from Holborn" would seem to indicate an early provenance after the change to Oxford street.
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-1361-e-m...nal-case-40673/

and the label:




4). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., OXFORD STREET,
Description: 1

Comment: REILLY on the label with a picture of 502 New Oxford Street. I believe this label was the company label from about 1849 to 1859 when E.M. added his initials to the firm.
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...4f-a41800b08eda





Last edited by Argo44; 09/22/18 01:57 PM.

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5). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: 1

Comment: REILLY on the label; 502 picture; There are two medals on this label; no close-up to tell what they were. Reilly's exhibited at the 1855 Paris exhibition and their display “attracted considerable notice and valuable patronage.” All the goods were sold and many orders booked. Wonder if these medals were from that fair? If so, why weren't they featured in follow-on ads? These could be some sort of stamps from a reseller?

http://www.vintageairguns.co.uk/air-canes/?occur=1&album=47&photo=1748




6). Xxxxx
Name: E.M.Reilly &Co., New Oxford St.,London
Description: This is a totally complete 1850's Cane Air Gun including it's original pump and cocking key. The pump and the cane are signed "E.M.Reilly &Co., New Oxford St.,London. The cane looks to be about .36 cal. and retains it's original brass rod and cap.  It also has a front and rear sight.  The head of the cane has some wonderful scrimshaw work consisting of 3 panels . One Admiral Nelson in his full naval officers garb. The second one is a family coat of arms,which I'm told is the Prince of Wales. The third is  the battleship Victory.The head is made out of Alabaster and there's a minor chip on the top . E.M Reilly was famous for his caneguns and wrote"Treatise on Air Guns" in 1850.  The  gun works just fine . It holds it's charge when pumped up and cocks and fires . A really great and complete nautical Cane Air Gun. This outfit would fit equally well in a firearms, nautical or scrimshaw collection. Rarely seen for sale.

Comment: EM began to be used on gun ribs about 1859.
https://www.johnjhayeshistoricalcollectibles.com/proddetail.php?prod=e4







7). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY, LONDON
Description: A 100-BORE PNEUMATIC AIR CANE 
SIGNED E.M. REILLY, LONDON, THIRD QUARTER OF THE 19TH CENTURY 
With sighted rifled brass barrel with rotating loading-drum, button-trigger and aperture for the cocking-key (key and muzzle-cap missing), signed on the case-hardened inner face at the join between the barrel and reservoir, dark horn handle, and retaining much original wood-effect painted finish throughout; together with AN 80-BORE BUTT-RESERVOIR AIR PISTOL, with turn-off two-stage barrel, scroll engraved brass action with iron 'flintlock' mechanism, and brass reservoir. The first 37ľin. (96.9cm.) long (2)
Comment:
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/a-100-bore-pneumatic-air-cane-signed-em-5509870-details.aspx




8). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: A great cased air gun cane curio by E.M.Reilly of London. It comes with its own original wood case with an address label for "E. M. Reilly & Co" and there is a list of contents prepared by an earlier owner/seller. The list reads: "Reilly walking stick air rifle, about .40 brass bbl., multi-groove rifling, bore about perfect. Very powerful, complete with mold, pump, cocking key, extra valve, etc. When fully pumped up, these will shoot 20-30 shots full power, Breech loading. Weight 3 1/2 Pounds. Thumb trigger. Probably made about 1850." (A written description of air guns by Dike on page 357 of Cane Curiosa mentions E. M. Reilly of London, as a noted air gun maker and inventor. Additionally 35/6 shows a very similar cased piece by another maker.)

Comment: Label shows use of "EM" (post 1859?) but no 315 New Oxford St subsidiary (therefore before 1860).
https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/11244082_a-cased-air-gun-cane-curio-by-emreilly-of-london




Last edited by Argo44; 09/22/18 01:57 PM.

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9). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: Cased .36-caliber English Cane Gun . . . circa 1849  by E.M. Reilly & Company. Until the 1800s, specialist carvers, metal workers, and artisans produced canes and walking sticks by hand. However, the popularity of fashion and gadget canes fueled a market for their mass manufacture and subsequently helped lead to their demise. Canes became less artistic and reflective of current fashions.

Comment: Use of "EM"(post 1858) but no 315 New Oxford subsidiary on the label (pre 1859).
http://www.greendragonsociety.com/Weaponry/Weaponry_Main_page.asp




10). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., OXFORD STREET, LONDON (502, NEW OXFORD STEET on case label)
Description: This is a rare, cased, Air Cane. Made of brass & steel it unscrews into 2 sections and when assembled measures 36" overall. The barrel section has a clean bore with crisp rifling (1cm at the muzzle approx. AA shot). The barrel section features a tiny blade foresight and 'V' notch steel rear sight.
The weapon fires moulded lead balls inserted in the barrel section at the loading port which has a small bolt feature. It is armed by means of its steel and brass air pump and fired by means of a steel winged trigger which is inserted into the underside of the rifle and twists to fire. The pump and trigger are present. The body of the pump is nicely marked by the manufacturer 'E.M. Reilly & Co, Oxford Street, London' (illustrated).

Comment: Note Paris Exhibition Medals 1867 but no Rue Scribe, Paris address…indicating it could have made between August 1867 and February 1868
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/aucti...1a-a5f00113573f






11). Xxxxx
Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description:

Comment: Note Paris Exhibition Medals 1867 but no Rue Scribe, Paris address…Actually though the Paris address has been defaced. 1868-1871 thereabouts.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/681456/thread/1362405040/4/A






Last edited by Argo44; 09/11/18 05:30 PM.

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Mr. Argo, thank you for posting such informative information on the Reilly air guns and reviving the E.M. Reilly & Co. thread! there is more information in this thread about the company than likely appears anywhere.

My first "good" English gun was a Reilly and when I searched for information I came up with very little. Thanks to the research being done by you and others who've posted in this thread, that paucity of information is being remedied.
Again, Thanks!...Geo

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Thanks George. I have more interesting serial numbers for Reilly guns but will wait to post till I can parse out a few more early Reilly's from Hoborn bars and 316 High Holborn. Modestly, I believe this board now has in one place the most extensive information available on Reilly anywhere. I just wish people who have early Reilly's or know where they might be owned or displayed would post. I'd follow up. Gene Williams

Last edited by Argo44; 05/11/17 09:19 PM.

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Argo, THANK YOU so much for this, to say the least, enthralling study of one of my favorite names in the history of vintage British firearms.

I own two E. M. Reilly double rifles, both caliber .500 BPE

Serial numbers are as follows: 18766 and 18954

Both bear the London and Paris addresses, and both are gorgeous guns aesthetically and superb as shooters.

Thank You again for your scholarly dedication to this most worthy of subjects.

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