doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com How to Shoot Trap with a SxS

I think we have to take into account the big disconnect between the way trap was shot a hundred years ago and the way it is today.

Yesterday's ammo was inferior - softer shot, no shot wrappers, and I suspect the payload was slower. To add some parity, ounce and a quarter loads were legal. Targets were faster, lower, wider, and not as stable in flight. All of this would have favored a full-choked barrel(s).

Judging from the breech faces of the three SxS trapguns I own, it looks as if both barrels were used more or less equally, which I suspect was not because of all the double targets that were shot, but rather a deliberate act on the part of the shooter in order to distribute the work.

Back to the chokes. Of the pre-war double trap guns I have seen, only one had something other than F&F or M&F, and that was 0.013" and 0.027", making it an obvious dedicated doubles gun for a fast shooter. However, I don't think those chokes would have been feasible back in the day before shot collars, and my suspicion is that the barrels were opened long after the gun was made.

Do doubles work at the traps? Hall of Famers John Sternberger and Hiram Bradley were using M21s through the sixties and into the early seventies. Maybe they didn't know any better.

The standard turn-of-the-century inanimate target load was 1 1/4 oz. 3 1/4 Dr. Eq. (1220 fps) but many of the "Top Guns" used 3 1/2 to 3 3/4 Dr. Eq. for Live Birds. 1 1/8 oz. 3 Dr. Eq. became increasingly popular for Targets after 1900 however.

GAH Live Bird competitions were handicapped back to 31 yds; at the 1899 (won by Tom Marshall) 6 shooters were at 31 (including J.A.R. Elliott with a Winchester Repeating Shotgun) and 11 at 31 yds (including E.D. Fulford winner in 1898 with a Remington Hammerless)
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1899/VOL_33_NO_05/SL3305011.pdf

1901 GAH at Live Birds shooters were handicapped from 25 to 33 yards: W.R. Crosby, J.A.R. Elliott and Fred Gilbert shot from 32 yards. Thomas A. Marshall & Jack Fanning at 31 yds. E.D. Fulford & Rolla Heikes at 30yds. Charley �Sparrow� Young at 29 yds.
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1901/VOL_37_NO_04/SL3704018.pdf

The first GAH at Targets in 1900 shooters were handicapped 14-25 yds.
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1900/VOL_35_NO_14/SL3514012.pdf

Most of the doubles were ordered full and a little fuller, and single barrel repeaters full; "Choke Bore" or as a pattern %.

Courtesy of Kenny Ray Estes
The old-time shooters shot targets from 50-60+ yards distance and any target within a 130 degree area was legal. (45 degrees + 20 degrees each side of the center stake)
At some point the rules were amended to throw a softer target, ie: the legal target area diminished to 22 degrees + 25 degrees outside of the extreme angle) or a total area of 94 degrees for legal targets.
(Since 1997) targets are illegal if they are outside of a total area of just 54 degrees; (17 degrees + 10 degrees outside); or 27 degrees each side of the center stake.

I suppose the next obvious question is how are today's shooters doing it at the classic Sxs shoots?

Many bring an old SBT.
I shoot an Ithaca double w/ 3" drop. FxF
So, shoot what you have.

Remember, for MANY people (and I fully understand this cannot be comprehended or accepted as a natural act by some) attending and shooting at a vintage firearm shoot is about playing with old toys.

NOT about taking home a trophy.

I liken it to Vintage car racing. You kinda want to win, but you aren't willing to wreck or blow up the Maserati Birdcage.

OK, so I'm a closet snob. Though I have never shot a registered target and really get bored with trap, on occasion I find myself on the line among all those modern zip guns. And all I have is my 120 year old Parker DH with 32" damascus barrels shooting my favorite load of 7/8 oz of #8 at 16 yards. I have to restrain my grin as we walk off the field and I've beaten half or more of the line. For the life of me I cannot see the perceived advantages these new fangled zip guns have other than worry the shooter to death over that last one degree twist in the stock or rib height. To me it just takes the spontaneity out of the sport and makes robots of normally interesting people. There is one feller I see ever so often at our gun club who marches right up to the line with his bird gun and from a low gun position turns in a very respectable performance. Though he is half my age my hat is off to him. There I see real skill to admire.

Our flyer club does not allow any guns other then break open guns. Side by sides compete "side by side" with Perazzis and Krieghoffs as well as Fabbris and side lock Berettas. The side by sides win more than a fair share of the money. Don't know why, just know that's the way it is.

I've shot Remington SxS's for years and always thought their 1894 F Grade trap guns were nothing more than a B Grade with a straight stock. Well, I'm not the brightest light bulb in the package. After about 10 years I was looking at one of my F Grades and noticed the solid rib was higher at the breech than the muzzle[ and it was swamped, not flat ]. All my F Grades were like that. Now I see it wasn't just an advertising ploy to sell more guns, but they really did do a little something to make them trap guns. Now I fell like a real trap shooter - my scores should improve.

Are we still speaking of trap shooters???? LOL!!!!!

Not bad



Mark Arie was the first shooter to run 100 straight doubles from scratch when he broke the first 163 in a 200-bird race at the Great Western Handicap at the Denver Municipal TC on July 18, 1926.

Re: vintage SBTs with those old soft pellet no shot cup shells

In 1917, Fred Gilbert took delivery of a Parker SBT SN 180116. He continued to compete thereafter, but at a gradually slower pace, troubled by high blood pressure and arthritis. In 1919 at age 54 he made a straight run of 589.