doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 2 inch guns

I think the person who has a 2 inch British gun will not be shooting at targets,I am sure that they own more than one gun.

If one looks at the number of different center fire rifle loads just for .220 caliber bullets, you could easily come to the conclusion we shotgunners are lucky the chambers length of the cartridges we buy weren't broken out into 16ths of an inch.

I look at the 2" 12 gauge cartridge in the same light I look at the 3" 12 gauge cartridge. Somebody was trying to sell me something I really already owned.

Best,
Ted

Absolutely correct.

Not talking about buying one as a dedicated target gun. But most guys I know who hunt with light doubles do like to bust some clays with their hunting gun to prepare for the season. (I've currently put aside my 12ga target gun and am now shooting a 28ga for the most part.) Gets either expensive or a PITA with a 2" gun if you shoot very many. And while the modern Spanish 2" guns carry a standard British proof, they also weigh as much as some 2 1/2" guns (and more than a whole lot of 28ga guns, and quite a few 20's and 16's).

I own two, 2 inch guns and I find them delightful to carry and deadly on game, including pheasants. I read somewhere (I'm no expert) that 2 inch, 12's, have the shortest shot string of any gauge because they are a true "square load". I don't know what the wall thickness is on either gun (both British and probably made by Skimmin and Wood), and don't want to know. Ignorance is bliss, so they say. One is a Jeffery and the other is a Halliday and I have not had any dents in the barrels through years of use afield. Ammo is not that expensive and readily available with a little foresight. I purchase most of my ammo at Fieldsport at around $10.00 per box. I even have a case of 2 inch, Nice Shot ammo, I had specially made. The Jeffery weighs in a 5 lb. 4 oz., and the Halliday at 5 lb. 8 oz. I would never get rid of either gun and I am always looking for another two inch 12 but only English made. Arrieta's are just too heavy and, like all Spanish guns, are prone to maintenance issues and do not hold their value, and hence, hard to sell without taking a big loss.

I have come across three pairs of two inch guns, over the years from Purdey, H & H and William Evans. The Purdey's sold for about $30K, which was a real bargain, IMO, but the H & H pair was twice that, partly due to new barrels fitted to the guns.

Pricing for a good, desirable 2 inch, 12, keeps going up and up. At least that is what I have noticed lately. I don't know why this is except there must be a small, hardcore following for these little svelt beauties.

I think it is also a rarity issue as they were only made for a short period while the fashion held. Mine's a Tolley who bought out Skimmin & Wood. Delightful little thing and like you I would be loath to part with it. They are pretty hard to find here in England so I guess the number made is quite low. Lagopus.....

Your 2" 'ers sound like terrific shotguns and no doubt you are one of a dedicated group who love 'em. The square load proposition is however a very iffy one. I had read and heard of these square loads for at least 50 years when I decided to experiment in so far as I could with limited resources. I got several of each boxes of 1oz. loads in 12 and 20 gauge, 71/2 shot, similar velocity. I shot from modified barrels at 30 yard sheets of brown paper and later at clay targets. Couldn't tell any difference. The pattern sheets couldn't be told apart if it weren't for the notation. The targets broke, or didn't, with the same regularity. The only difference I could find, and this is kind of weird, was that when I stood of to the side of the pattern sheets, a friend helped sometimes and this was quicker to change sheets, I heard a distinct difference in the sound of the pellets striking the paper. The 12 gauge loads had a much sharper slap. It wasn't something you had to try hard to hear either. I could look away and still tell instantly which load had hit the paper sheet. I assumed that the 20 gauge load was more strung out. But so what. In some cases a long shot load may be more deadly. I don't know. But I do know to take all that stuff about "square loads" with a grain of salt.

Of course it's impossible to evaluate shot string by shooting at a target that's not moving. You need to get your wife to tow a target sled behind the family vehicle, as Bob Brister did. Then string will show up . . . although probably not a lot of it at 30 yards or closer. And if it does, there are a lot of factors at play: Choke, hardness of shot, plastic wad vs fiber, etc.

I'm not much for the "square load" thing either. If the 2" 12 has an advantage, I expect it stems at least in part from having a very short shot column . . . although that shot column is no shorter than it would be in a 2 1/2" or 2 3/4" 12ga shell, assuming they're all shooting the same payload.

What does a short or long shot stream really mean as an advantage? If you hit a bird with the center of the pattern it will be dead, with a short or long shot stream. If you hit it with the fringe, the edge or the tail end of the pattern it is more luck than anything else that will bring the bird down. I know that a shot string may be many feet long but doe sit really matter? Statistically it most likely does not.

I'd think that if a target can pass through a shot string in a shorter amount of time than it takes for the entire string to pass a point, then possibly, the effective pattern on the target will less dense than it would seem on a two dimensional pattern board. Maybe, that's why birds end up with three pellets in them when the board says they should've gotten smoked.