doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com SxS's waning popularity

There have been a few discussions on this subject lately and generally I have been in the camp that there will likely always be a sub-set that enjoys a classic SxS but that it usually takes some number of years and some level of disposable income for that appreciation to manifest itself. And thus while there will always be some market value fluctuations, the overall market is unlikely to catastrophically collapse and stay that way. But I saw something over the last couple days that has me re-thinking that.

I was back at a high end private hunting preserve on a 2900 acre island for the first time in about 10 years (my how time flies!). I had been a regular guest from the very early 1990's to the mid 2000's. The members are typically 40-60 years of age and financially very successful, mostly as a result of enterprise, not inheritance. There are typically about 80 members and no more than 20 guns are accommodated at any one time. Every member could easily afford and shoot several best guns if they so desired. When I was there over the last couple days there were 8 guns being provided for by a minimum of 20 staff members.

When I first started to go, the gun room, which typically would have 60 - 80 of the members guns (and current guests) was at least 2/3 filled by SxS sidelocks, many of them best guns. This week, beside the 2 guns I brought, I found one other SxS, a nice Webley and Scott boxlock.

The vast majority were O/U B guns with Beretta dominating. Guns that in Canada retail for between $2000 and $4000. There were also a few semis.

I think what I'm seeing is a change over of membership as the older set, that dominated the membership when I first went in the 1990's, have grown too old to hunt, and their place has been taken by younger men, brought up hunting over the last 20 years to just automatically choose a O/U.

For the very first time, the guns I brought were probably the most finely made guns on the island.

Any thoughts re: the market.

BTW, despite the temps being brutal for tough slogging through still green and growing, chin high cover for pheasants, the shooting was spectacular for preserve birds. Too many to count and it was way more fun getting getting my eye in that way than going to the range! No dog could work longer than 20 min.

No telling what the guns keep at home, for enjoyment, versus what they shoot, in public, but, I really don't believe this is anything new.
We double gunners are a traditional lot, we cling to wood and blued steel because they are beautiful, but, neither is a lifetime, or, maintenance free product. Few millienials grasp well the concept of maintenance. Most of their things are disposable. Those two facts weigh heavily against typical doubles.
The good stuff will remain valuable for some time to come, but, even on the "for sale" board, right here, most guns listed show a price reduction, and nothing here is ever absurdly priced, to begin with.
Time will tell, but, occasionally, even the best miss seeing the handwriting on the wall.

Best,
Ted

I use my double one day a year on Thanksgiving for grouse. That's about it anymore.

Best requires best service preferably by the maker. Sending a gun to the maker or someone trained by him is a major hassle with today's laws. Buying something that can be locally or self serviced is an obvious choice.

Sometimes, more than that. I owned a pre Royal H&H, with the single trigger that is pushed forward to select the tight barrel. I doubt there is anyone alive today who can fix that trigger. I do not believe it was highly regarded in the era it came from, either.
A Facile Princeps is a beautiful gun. But, if you try to close one when it isn't cocked, you will wish you hadn't.
Most people, especially people younger than me, aren't interested in silly shortcomings like that.

Best,
Ted

I was just thinking something related to this stuff yesterday at the Vintage Cup at Hopkins Game Farm in Maryland. The whole thing was a pale imitation of how they used to be. Far fewer dealers, temperatures way too hot for Edwardian dress, no possibility of walking around to watch the shooters. The dealers who were there had lots of beautiful guns but I suspect that buyers were absent. I felt a bit sorry for them. Hard to believe. Kirby Hoyt must have had millions of dollars of stock laid out, A for effort. But where were the buyers? I hope they showed up after I left. More OUs than previously, not my thing, too clunky and heavy but to each his own. Saw a pair of McKayBrowns that fit me perfectly. I really wanted them but since I have zero use for a pair I passed. Also of course I need the 50K for a couple of other little things right now.

OP is noticing a changing demographic at the private club.

Successful people today especially those still in the workforce lack only one thing - time.

These folks are also results oriented.

With appreciation for the classic designs yet undeveloped and shooting time short, it's pretty natural that they select efficiency over aesthetics.

I still believe that the ultra rich are going to keep buying hand built SxS for the exclusivity of them plus their double rifles.

For the lower and middle market buyers, the handwriting is already on the wall.

I can recall a few pictures of the riflesmith Neidner that M. Petrov shared a few years back. I believe he and some friends were at a match in the 20's. I don't think there were ten competitors in all, they may have thought that classic single shots were fading away from the scene. I don't know what the values will be down the road, but I doubt classic guns and rifles are headed to shreaders and crushers, at least not all of them.

I do think the folks that will be spending their hard earned money on them in the future are buying plastic autoloading pistols and rifles now. Even in some golden era, weren't these guns somewhat limited and exclusive. It's no big deal if they're sitting in the back of a safe or closet, at least they aren't getting beat on or bubba'ed. I don't know how comfortably they are sitting, but low pressure/obsolete length shell makers must have some market that keeps them in business, even if those customers aren't always public about it. I hope the glass is half full.

I will be shooting driven in England in a couple weeks, and I am not taking my own guns. The well known commercial shoot has no SxS's available to rent. Plenty of Italian O/U's.
Yet they ask we wear traditional attire.
Go figure.