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Argo44 Offline OP
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Here are Terry's images of the Dave Wesbrook photos of his bar-in-wood Reilly (Attendance at Vegas is going to go up): (Terry, what's the SN and the address on the rib ?)(if it has one; assume it's been rebarrelled at some point?)


Last edited by Argo44; 05/16/18 01:25 PM.

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And here is his consignment list (had to break it up into parts to get the photo site to accept it). I go through an extract the Reilly's for the SN chronology

The amazing thing is I spent months collecting the SN's and chronicling the actions and address on the ribs of Reilly's. I got a library of about 220 (less than 1% of Reilly's numbered guns) and was able to make some historical judgements from that. Terry just sold 75...you heard it 75..fully 33% of the guns I found....and he still has more lying around someplace!!:








Last edited by Argo44; 12/14/17 04:02 PM.

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Last edited by Argo44; 05/16/18 01:49 PM.

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Frustrating when an auction house like this is to niggardly with information about the gun; no SN, name on rib nothing. but it weighs 9 lbs + has 34"+ barrel, and a 3 1/2 chamber. Non rebounding hammer patented in 1867 so say pre-1870?...with probably EM Reilly, New Oxford St and possibly post Feb 1868 wit Rue Scribe as well? (difficult to say). (I probably already have catalogued this gun someplace).
http://gavingardiner.com/BidCat/detail.asp?SaleRef=0032&LotRef=243


Last edited by Argo44; 05/16/18 01:52 PM.

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Serial is 27750, address on left tube is E. M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford Street, London.

Barrels are original, Whitworth Compressed Steel, bores marked 12/14 on both, Not for Ball

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Thanks. Turns out I did have that gun, just mislabeled it as "27570." I'd estimate that 27750 was made in the late Spring, early summer 1888. We noticed that some Reilly barrels had traits which would date them somewhat earlier than the gun SN would indicate (not for ball on the barrels for instance)....meaning Riley may have stockpiled barrels.


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==================================================================================================
1847 - 57 - JC Reilly and the "7000" series numbers


I’d like to repost some recent conclusions on the Reilly SN chronology in one place for the record.

First to reiterate the background.

— Reilly (JC and EM) numbered about 35,600 guns (minus about a 5000 gap in 1847 + about another 1,000 number by JC after 1847 as detailed below...i.e. 30,000 more or less) between the beginning of his business as a gun builder in the 1820’s until the business dwindled away in the run-up to WWI.

— We don’t know when he made “number 1”. However, one can speculate that this was in the late 1820’s. He was a silver plateworker/engraver and likely engraved guns to start off with. London Times 5 Jan 1831 reported a theft at Reilly’s shop and identified him as “gunmaker and silversmith.” The first ads in London papers for Reilly guns, new and used, began appearing in 1834.

— His first store (1816?-1835) was at 12 Middle Row, Holborn. Believe that the address on the ribs of his guns while at this shop included the phrase “Holborn Bars.” The earliest Reilly long gun I’ve found is SN 162. There are also Terry Buffum’s dueling pistols SN 176 which look to be in the main-stream Reilly SN chronology. Below is a drawing of the building which stuck out into the street where his 12 Middle Row was located. It was demolished in the 1870’s.



— In August 1835 Reilly moved from 12 Middle Row, Holborn to 315 High Holborn. He was there for 17 years. EM at the age of 24 years became a partner in 1840. The first number found with High Holborn on the rib of a long gun is 1174; there is a pistol with “High Holborn” on the rib SN 1024 which may fall in the main Reilly SN chronology. The last gun with High Holborn on the rib is 3329. The guns from this period had the name “Reilly,” “J.C. Reilly,” or “Joseph Charles Reilly.”

— In March 1847 Reillys moved to 502 New Oxford Street where the store remained for 50+ years. The first gun with this address is SN 8463. A history of Reilly postulated that upon the move to 502 New Oxford St., the SN chronology was bumped up to 8,400 and begun anew and ascended with unbroken regularity up to 35,600 +. It could be logically said that the Reilly’s did this in round numbers, 5,000 perhaps, meaning their last gun at High Holborn would have been 3,400 or thereabouts, confirming the SN of the last gun from High Holborn above.

The evidence for the renumbering of Reilly’s beginning at 8,400 in 1847 is overwhelming: Case label from 502 Oxford Street, gun SN 8463. Note “removed from High Holborn” (moved from High Holborn) still on label.



Similar label found on an 1847 air-cane.



Now, however, three SN’s in the 7,900 series have been discovered, all with an address 502 New Oxford Street, and “J.C. Reilly” on the ribs….two long guns and one air cane. These are posted below. The logical conclusion is that in 1847, when the firm moved to New Oxford St, Edward Michael, then 31 years old and soon to be author of a widely disseminated pamphlet on air cane guns, took over the management of the family firm; it kept its name “J.C. Reilly” for awhile; but soon used just “Reilly” on the ribs of its guns. Then in late 1858 the firm began using E.M Reilly marking the end of the transition from JC to EM.

The tentative conclusion on the numbering problem is this:

— Upon the move to 502 New Oxford Street, EM Reilly began numbering long guns beginning with 8400 and using the name “Reilly” on the rib (while retaining for awhile the JC Reilly mark on the case labels.)

— But, it’s also likely that J.C. Reilly, the old man, kept a batch of serial numbers for himself, perhaps to use with long standing customers and that these serial numbers began at 7,900. If this were the case he only made about 800 more guns before he retired entirely and moved to the countryside in the late 1850’s. He died in 1864. Here are the three guns/canes with numbers in the 7,900 series.

7201. **???**
Name: Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London
Description: A mid 19th Century single barrel percussion action gun, by Joseph Charles Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London, numbered 7201, the muzzle loading barrel holding brass mounted ebony ramrod under, signed to top and lockplate, engraved steel mounts with feather scrolls to walnut butt and stock, in original mahogany fitted case with maker's label to inner lid; two Sykes patent shot flasks, one with embossed leather bag; one Reilly shot tin; and other fittings. Hammer Price: Ł700.00
.....Comment: June 2016 auction; muzzle loader. Its been assumed that EM Reilly began consecutive SN beginning at 8,400 when they moved to 502 New Oxford Street and this is born out by labels and serial numbers. However, If this SN is correct, it may mean that EM Reilly began serial numbering his wares beginning at SN 8,400 upon arriving at 502 while JC Reilly kept the old numbering system or began anew at around 7,000, separating their production to some extent. This JC Reilly has the 502 address meaning post 1847 but the number just doesn't fit the Reilly progression. This is not clear - did JC number guns on his own? Or is the entry wrong? - more examples are needed..
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...20-a61700c0a9c0

7801 ??
Name: REILLY, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: REILLY LONDON A RARE CASED 28-BORE PERCUSSION COMBINATION WALKING-STICK GUN serial no. 7801. circa 1845 comprising of a 28 3/4in. re-browned octagonal damascus rifle barrel signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON` (renewed) small dove-tailed crescent fore-sight blued standing notch rear-sight with one folding leaf a 29 3/4in. re-browned damascus round shot barrel with octagonal breech section (unsigned) and an unsigned octagonal 32-bore 3in. re-browned damascus pistol barrel (probably a later addition) matching period London proofs together with a percussion under-hammer squared boxlock action with guarded trigger the top-tang signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON`

Comment:
--this is an early Reilly after they moved to 502 New Oxford Street in late March 1847. It has he picture of 502 indicating it is post 1848-9. For the first 12 months or so after the move the wrote "removed from Holborn" on the labels.
--The SN is interesting because if his air-gun canes were numbered in the same series as his long guns, this is the earliest number after the move. I’ve speculated that EM and JC just jumped numbers up from about 4.500 to 8,400 after the move. However, this cane if the SN is in the long-gun series will change that.
-- (the auction house is wrong; the cane can’t be 1845 and have the New Oxford Street address - see the chronology)
-- Note: I’ve found a JC REILLY shotgun with the 502 New Oxford Street address with a serial number 7280. This is outside of the EM Reilly numbering system - the earliest I found was 8463, which had the label "502 New Oxford" plus "removed from Holborn." (posted below) This makes me wonder whether Joseph Charles and E.M split their serial numbering at this time. i.e. J.C. may have continued with his own numbering system and let EM begin anew with SN’s after 8,400). This will be investigated further. (or it could be that the "7" is actually a "9")
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/aucti...f6-a4340134dc99

Label is from the 1858-55 time period



7869
J C Reilly, percussion hammer gun, muzzle loader, 12ga. rib marked J C Reilly New Oxford St. London. Terry Buffum gun bought by SXS40(HWK). I'd really like to see the photos of the barrel flats etc. It's an important gun!

edit: Amazing photos posted here:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=498105#Post498105

Last edited by Argo44; 09/11/18 12:32 PM.

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I'll try to get you photos by the end of the day.


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Here is a list of Terry's Reilly's sold at auction. I think at some point I'll combine all the SN chronologies above including the Terry SN's I didn't have into a new chronological post and this time date them. I should have some time over the next few weeks.

You'll note that 7869 is not mentioned in the spread sheet list. Terry also did not record the name on the rib or the address in his spread sheet. For me the most interesting ones for the historical reasons are
-- 1060 (after a certain time period Reilly stop putting his pistols in his long-gun series but I believe 176 and 1060 may belong; 176 had Holborn Bars and JC Reilly on the ribs; 1060 should have High Holborn and J.C. Reilly if it's in the long gun chronology).
-- 1869 - should be JC Reilly and High Holborn address
-- 3402 - should be JC Reilly and High Holborn; - maybe one of the last guns numbered there before the move to New Oxford St.

Red = additional info/pictures please

176 Brace of percussion dueling pistols
1060 Percussion pocket pistol

1869 SxS percussion hammer gun, 10 ga, cased w/oil bottle etc.
3402 SxS percussion hammer gun .577, cased
13033 SxS pinfire hammer gun, 20 ga rifle. Jones underleer, Damascus barrels, cased,
14985 SxS hammer gun, 16 ga. Jones Patent underlever;
15283 SxS hammer gun 12 ga; ones patent underlever, caed
17476 SxS hammer gun, 12 ga. Purdy thumb snap patent, canvas case
17392 Side lever hammer gun 16 ga
18550 Double rifle, .577 BPE, cased
19827 SxS Hammerless, back-action side lock, 12 ga, side lever opening
20396 SxS hammer gun, 20 ga. Damascus barrels, case
21761 Double Rifle 500, Purdy patent, cased
21883 SxS hammer gun 20 ga
22093 Woodward Automatic 12 ga., case
23818 Side Lever Rook Rifle 22 LR (relined)
24354 SxS 12 ga
24627....................500 BPE 28" barrels
24672 Lang Trigger Plate 16 ga
25460 SxS hammerless back-action side lock, 12 ga. Live pigeon gun. Case
27377 SxS 12 ga. W&C Scott Crystal Indicator Action, 3 barrel set; Nitro proof 3rd barrel steel/sleeved
27570 SxS hammer gun, 16 ga,
27854 SxS W&C Scott Crystal Indicator Action, Side lever 12 Ga, case
26537 SxS hammer gun, 28 ga, Jones Patent underlever
30342 SxS hammerless box lock, 12 ga. Live pigeon gun, Damascus barrels, case
30207 SxS 10 bore
30846 double rifle, Anson and Deely action w/ Greener cross bolt 45 cal
32667 SxS hammer gun 10 ga
32974 SxS hammer gun, 12 ga.
34221 SxS hammer gun, 450 nr 2 musket -pair
34222 SxS hammer gun, 16 ga shotgun
34247 SxS hammerless box lock, 12 ga, Damascus barrels, case
35493 SxS hammer gun box lock 16 ga

------SN absent or unclear -----
?1859 SxS hammer gun active side lock - mixed numbers sleeved.
n/a Percussion Single barrel 6 bore
n/a Percussion Rifle. 50 cal
n/a Single shot tip up pistol

Last edited by Argo44; 12/18/17 03:59 PM.

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==================================================================================================
1820's - c1837 +. - Reilly and serial numbered pistols


I guess I'm testing you all...writing a book on line. But here are some early Reilly pistols which are relevant (Terry Buffum see below re 1060):

I mentioned above that by about 1840, Reilly pistols no longer were numbered in the Reilly long-gun chronology…this divorce might have occurred even earlier. (you can see several non-numbered guns from the High Holborn period). i.e if Reilly didn't make it, it wasn't numbered in his series. (Note: The labels in the cases, however are extremely interesting, usually have been more protected than long-gun cases. The dates of manufacture of the Reilly retailed pistols/revolvers can date the labels which in turn can help confirm dates of long guns.)

But it looks like that at least very early on the pistols were numbered chronologically and are part of Reilly history. Here are several Reilly pistols that look to be in the logical early chronology. They are mixed in with a few long gun serial numbers which give them credibility

176 (Pistol) (if the SN is right, this is one of the very earliest Reillys)_
Name: J.C. REILLY, HOLBORN BARS, LONDON
Description: Serial #176, .50 caliber, 8 3/4" smooth bore octagon barrels with lightly oxidized bores. The tops of the barrels are each marked "J.C. REILLY, HOLBORN BARS, LONDON" and each lock is engraved "J.C. REILLY". The locks and hammers show lovely flowing foliate scroll with panoplies of arms engraved on the hammers. The bolsters are equipped with platinum blow out plugs. The barrels feature double silver bands at breeches with nicely engraved tangs. The triggerguards are also engraved with stylized pineapple shaped finials and panoplies of arms on bow of triggerguard.
Comment: Do not know if Reilly hand-guns used his sequential Serial Numbering, These pistols though, along with the one below may have. Note rounded butts.-
Terry Boffum owned these guns and can clarify a lot.
http://www.amoskeagauction.com/108/283.html



xxxx (Pistol) (pre-1835 - Holborn Bars; but no Reilly SN)
Name: J.C. Reilly, Holborn Bars, LONDON
Description: British Mid 19th Century Pocket Pistol, comprising: Small [Overall Length 14cm] Muzzle Loading Percussion Pocket Pistol, Proof Marks to Underside of 5.5cm Barrel. Complete with Foliate Decoration, Bag Shaped Walnut Grip & Folding Trigger.
Comment: Holborn Bar indicates this pistol if pre 1835 before the move to High Holborn.
http://www.vectis.co.uk/Page/ViewLot.aspx?LotId=598875&Section=0&Start=320



1024 - (Pistol) - If this is a Reilly SN, it is post 1835 - pre 1840?
Address: Reilly 316 Holborn London
Description: erkussions-Terzerolpistole um 1840 Joseph Charles Reilly London
achtkantiger, glatter Lauf, im Kaliber 8,5 mm, mit leichter Gravur an Laufmündung, sowie Signatur auf der Oberseite "Reilly 316 Holborn London". Mit Rankendekor graviertes Perkussionsschloss, Abzug klappt bei Spannung des Hahnes aus.
Comment: Pistol….interesting serial number. rounded butt
http://online.auktion-zwack.de/de/perkus...mp;currentpos=9



1060 (not a Reilly SN per below)
Percussion pocket pistol.
Terry, history needs some photos. Thanks.
edit: Terry tells me it was a pocket percussion revolver - A check on the aution show it is labeled "E.M. Reilly" placing it in late 1850's..(it looks earlier, wonder if it was just "Reilly" on the rib?). This is the problem with trying to use SN's for dating pistols marketed by Reilly. He didn't put his numbers on any gun he didn't make.



1292 (Pistol) - If this is a Reilly SN, the gun should be 1835-1840. High Holborn
Address: Reilly, London
Description: Miniature 120-Bore Box-Lock Percussion Pocket Pistol By Reilly of London, Circa 1850. With round turn-off barrel engraved with a band of foliage at the breech.
Comment: Percussion miniature pistol, typical of early Reilly’s; believe he manufactured this. Note the rounded butt…seems to be a marker.
https://www.garthvincent.com/a-miniature-120-bore-box-lock-percussion-pocket-pistol-by-reilly-of-london%2C-circa-1850.-1597/



xxxx. (no SN - High Holborn - 1835-47; no SN)
English folding trigger percussion single shot pistol with barrel marked “Reilly 316 Holborn London”, .54 cal., 3-1/2” octagon barrel with swivel ramrod and belt hook, checkered wood grips, engraved frame.
http://www.icollector.com/English-foldin...Londo_i12499548



xxxx (possibly High Holborn - 1835-47; no SN on a pair of high-end lady's guns)
Engraved and Silver-Inlaid Small English Boxlock Percussion Muff Pistols by Reilly, c. 1840frames marked: Reilly/London.
http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20britannique/artisan%20p%20q%20r/a%20reilly%20gb.htm




xxxx (Pistol). Between 1835 and 1840? - no SN
Name: JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON
Description: .50 caliber pistol with a 10-inch octagonal barrel measures 15-inches in overall length. Wood ramrod with flared brass cap, brass section at rear unscrews exposing the worm. Top of barrel marked "JOSEPH CHARLES REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON." London proof marks. Platinum blowout plug on nipple drum. One barrel key with oval silver escutcheons. The brown Damascus finish slightly worn. Nicely grained walnut half-stock with bag grip and black horn forend cap; oval silver thumbpiece. Sunburst engraved around center screw. Iron trigger guard and ferrules; stylized pineapple finial with tassel, center portion engraved in shell pattern.

Note the similarity to 176 above...platinum blowout plugs, beautiful Damascus barrels, etc....It could be a twin. It was only 12 years difference from 176 might have been made say around 1828? to this gun - made circa 1840? maybe...but the formula still worked. (but check out the snazzy wood ramrod)(a replacement?)

http://www.aaawt.com/html/firearms/f296.html


Last edited by Argo44; 09/11/18 12:33 PM.

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