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Forums10
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Most Online1,335 Apr 27th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,435 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,435 Likes: 1 |
Thank you for a very informative thread on one of my favorite guns. Several years ago I bought an 12b S3 that Cole had gone thru completely and I just love it......enough that a confirmed SxS guy like my self has wavered and now shoots both SxS and O/U. It does have much less but very intricate and subtle engraving with full coverage and slightly plainer wood than pictured above, but handles like a Ferrari at 6lbs 13oz with the 1.395kg barrels. It's straight stock, double triggers and solid rib make it just about perfect for me.
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 459 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 459 Likes: 12 |
Thank you for a very informative thread on one of my favorite guns. Several years ago I bought an 12b S3 that Cole had gone thru completely and I just love it......enough that a confirmed SxS guy like my self has wavered and now shoots both SxS and O/U. It does have much less but very intricate and subtle engraving with full coverage and slightly plainer wood than pictured above, but handles like a Ferrari at 6lbs 13oz with the 1.395kg barrels. It's straight stock, double triggers and solid rib make it just about perfect for me. Mine (30" barrels) unfortunately weighs a full 8 lbs despite a 14 5/8" stock and handles more like a large Mercedes - it would be so much nicer a pound lighter.
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 553 Likes: 56
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 553 Likes: 56 |
CBill,
S Tonnecelli was a Beretta master engraver. Here's another example of his work.
Ken The engraving pattern is similar but not identical to mine---same engraver as yours---I understand that he died prematurely and thus did not engrave a lot of guns---is your gun an early 60's gun as well?. Your gun has gold pins, mine does not. Yours has a pierced top lever, mine does not. Yours has a double trigger, mine is a single trigger. Yours is a straight stock, mine is pistol grip. I'm sure my gun was intended as a trap gun as it is 8 lbs with a slightly higher comb than would a conventional hunting gun. The workmanship on these EELL guns is incredible---a sleeper on the market, in my opinion. A quick web search shows several Fracassi engraved guns that command a considerable premium vs similar guns by lesser known engravers. In due course I will get pics to share with all. Bill Bill, Yes...Tononcelli died in 1969 (he was 44). My gun was proofed in 1966 (XXII). I don't understand the premium plus on Fracassi engraved guns. Yes, he became a very famous engraver, but it is still a standard Beretta pattern. My gun weighs 7lbs 4 oz (barrels are 3 lb 2 oz (1,37 kg) and has the game style fore end. The barrels are 28". Ken
Last edited by KDGJ; 01/04/18 02:40 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105 |
The one I looked at recently had S3EL stamped on the bottom of the barrels along with a normal date (a couple digits hard to read, but I think it's 1956) rather than the Italian Roman numeral date code from that era. Engraving very similar to the photos on the previous page, but with cocking indicators which I don't see on those, even when I blow up the photos.
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 553 Likes: 56
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 553 Likes: 56 |
The one I looked at recently had S3EL stamped on the bottom of the barrels along with a normal date (a couple digits hard to read, but I think it's 1956) rather than the Italian Roman numeral date code from that era. Engraving very similar to the photos on the previous page, but with cocking indicators which I don't see on those, even when I blow up the photos. Larry, Beretta removed the cocking indicators around 1959. This is when they stopped using the 7-pin lock design (sometimes referred to as the H&H design) and used the Beretta improved 5/4 pin lock design. I have a photo of a gun stamped 1950 instead of the date code. It appears Beretta used dates for some reason (just not known). Ken
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 288 Likes: 10
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 288 Likes: 10 |
CBill,
S Tonnecelli was a Beretta master engraver. Here's another example of his work.
Ken The engraving pattern is similar but not identical to mine---same engraver as yours---I understand that he died prematurely and thus did not engrave a lot of guns---is your gun an early 60's gun as well?. Your gun has gold pins, mine does not. Yours has a pierced top lever, mine does not. Yours has a double trigger, mine is a single trigger. Yours is a straight stock, mine is pistol grip. I'm sure my gun was intended as a trap gun as it is 8 lbs with a slightly higher comb than would a conventional hunting gun. The workmanship on these EELL guns is incredible---a sleeper on the market, in my opinion. A quick web search shows several Fracassi engraved guns that command a considerable premium vs similar guns by lesser known engravers. In due course I will get pics to share with all. Bill Bill, Yes...Tononcelli died in 1969 (he was 44). My gun was proofed in 1966 (XXII). I don't understand the premium plus on Fracassi engraved guns. Yes, he became a very famous engraver, but it is still a standard Beretta pattern. My gun weighs 7lbs 4 oz (barrels are 3 lb 2 oz (1,37 kg) and has the game style fore end. The barrels are 28". Ken I have looked at every S3EELL that I can find on the web and the engraving patterns are similar but not identical. It seems that the engravers had some freedom to exhibit their skills. In my opinion the Fracassi engraved guns do indeed show a higher level of expertise. I wouldn't be paying the high premium charged by the dealers but if Fracassi engraved guns were the same price as other EELL's I would pick Fracassi. Ken---have you taken the locks off your gun and given them a close inspection---were they gold washed, or partially washed---were the inside of the locks nicely finished? I wish my locks were hand detachable, but they are not so I must make a trip to my smith to do the job as well as oil and clean. I don't trust myself to take off the locks with the tiny locking screws.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,435 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,435 Likes: 1 |
Wel, here's one of my favorite Berettas....the one I described above.
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 617
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 617 |
On a slight tangent, take care if you're having these barrels re blacked, I believe some models are soft soldered.
Rust never sleeps !
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 553 Likes: 56
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 553 Likes: 56 |
Bill, The lock pins are gold washed along with the triggers. The locks are nicely jeweled and finished on the inside (see pic). The inletting isn't bad. Bob, The S3 looks great. Ken
Last edited by KDGJ; 01/05/18 05:00 PM.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 288 Likes: 10
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 288 Likes: 10 |
Bill, The lock pins are gold washed along with the triggers. The locks are nicely jeweled and finished on the inside (see pic). The inletting isn't bad. Bob, The S3 looks great. Ken Thanks, Ken---those locks are beautiful---I have seen a number of English locks, but none compare to your Beretta's. I suspect my locks don't have the gold washing as there is none on the exterior, can't see it being in the interior. Just remembered that Westley Richard drop locks are nicely finished with engine turning but don't recall seeing any gold. Bill
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