doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Best Bismuth and shot size(s)

Back to who makes the best bismuth shot, I see Precision Reloading is selling a "textured" shot. How good/bad is this? It is supposed to be cheaper to make, but I haven't penciled out the cost to me. Maybe Precision is pocketing the savings. Anyway, what works best?

With Bismuth, one of the early concerns was fragmenting the shot. That's really why I asked this question. Is some of the shot on the market too brittle, or not round, or in some way inferior to other manufacturer's products?

I've shot and patterned a lot of bismuth. No issues with fragmenting that I have seen. If you can still type after test firing your bismuth loads using lead recipes, lol, please post your results.

dal, years ago, I loaded Bi with lead recipes. I'm typing today. I guess it can be done. In general, what is the issue with using Bi in place of lead in a load recipe? Too much pressure? From what and how? Are Bi loads usually lighter powder charges? How much so?

I'm not seeing much to convince me that Bi is somehow mysterious to load. The powder manufacturers don't seem to be making a big deal of it.

Good to know that fragmenting isn't much of an issue. I recall that it was a concern in the early years when production was not well worked out, apparently.

The diffence between lead and Bismuth is density. That difference means the same weight shot charge occupies different space. The difference in volume may yield radically different results or minor differences. This is why tested data matters. It matters more if you are on pressure limits with your load to begin with.

I am not saying you can�t substitute Bismuth for lead with lead data. You may get an acceptable result, but without valid testing for pressure and velocity you are going on faith not fact.

I reference:
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloadin...-reloading-data

with all due respect Brent, if 1oz. of lead can be substituted with 1oz. of bismuth, then can 1oz. of bismuth be substituted with 1oz. of steel, or 1oz. of.....?

If your theory was true, bismuth pellet manufacturers would have advertised the direct switch for years, one would think? I believe nice shot was the only direct substitute for recipes using lead.

personally I'll stick with tested and published loads...no experiments needed.

Best wishes.

dal, that's why I asked, specifically, about hardness. And bismuth manufacturers DID recommend the direct switch years ago when Bismuth first came out.

old colonel, if I load by volume then a "1.5 oz" will actually load 1.3 oz of Bi using the same shot bushing. If hardness isn't an issue (as with steel) think, I'll be pretty darn safe if I stick to the same volume of Bi instead of the same actual weight which would be hard to fit in the hull for most loads. There certainly isn't a lot of information out there. I found BPI has a reloading manual specifically for Bi, but it is out of stock.

"And bismuth manufacturers DID recommend the direct switch years ago when Bismuth first came out."

learn something new every day.

Well, I loaded 48 rounds with the Bi #5 that I had on hand.

31.5 grs of Blue Dot and 1.2 oz of shot (by weight). The powder and shot bushings are both a little conservative for what they are supposed put out, so that's what it worked out to be for 10 test throws that I checked on the scale.

For comparison, 34 grs of Blue Dot and 1.375 oz of lead produces 10,600 ftlbs of pressure in a recipe that I used a lot for pheasant hunting loads back in the day.

Time will tell how it shoots.

When I wanted to load some bismuth loads for an old shotgun, and could not find any suitable loads I asked the big boys, they told me you can sub bismuth for lead, but you have to drop about an 8th oz less shot because of the weight difference, apparently bismuth acts more like a liquid just like lead does when fired from a shotgun, where steel acts like a solid, and that's what makes steel tricky.

TM

While well intentioned your ideas are not truly supported or adequately explained. Who are these �big boys� and what is the basis of their substitution?

You seem to state, reduce the lead shot load in the recipe by 1/8 ounce as a rule of thumb. Is that a 1oz load or 1 1/4 load etc.? The ratios may matter, though I have not seen this published anywhere on a reliable loading data website.

Are the lead loads you simply reduce the load by 1/8 at the top, middle, or low end of the allowable pressure spectrum? Your idea could be more or less dangerous depending on what lead load you choose to bastardize.

I know shot shell reloading can be forgiving and overbuilt guns can handle some abuse, but to throw out generalities without a basis in testing is dangerous. Many old SXS guns are capable of handling some big pressures, but many are not.

I have spent awhile tonight trying to find an authoritative source espousing your course of action but cannot.

There is sufficient tested data out there that owners of �an old shotgun� can find solutions with significantly lower risks than your course of action espouses.