doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Educate Me - H.A. Linder, Charles Daly SxS's

Hi all, say, could someone tell me the models/grades that H.A. Linder made for the Charles Daly line.

Looking for the models from best grade to bottom end.

Thanks so much!

Greg

I was trying to determine the same thing last year as I began looking for a external hammer pigeon gun. What I came up with is, from the top..... Diamond Regent, Diamond, Empire and Superior.

If that is not accurate I would appreciate correction, too.

SRH

Let me see if I can help. Unfortunately, it is not an simple explanation as the (Prussian) Charles Daly SxS line-up evolved and morphed considerably over a period of more than 60 years.

1. Schoverling, Daly, and Gales (SD&G) - as well as earlier and later variations of that company - sold Daly guns by model number. The higher the model number, the more expensive the gun.

2. Some of these models were grouped under a quality designation (i.e., a "grade"). But here is where it can get confusing; depending on the year, there may have been one diamond quality model or 5 different diamond quality models. In 1890, for example, there was only one hammerless diamond quality model, the model 200. Fifteen years later, you could buy diamond quality models 225, 255, 275, 325, and 375.

3. The "empire" and "superior" quality designations ("grades") were only introduced at the very tail end of the Prussian Daly production. I just checked my catalogs and there is no mention of the "superior" and "empire terms pre-1928. The terms do show up in a circa-1930 catalog and also the Blue Book of Gun Values which is why they are so often referenced. And since Heinrich Lindner ceased his shops production circa-1916, there can be no such animal as a Lindner produced "empire grade" gun.

4. In terms of Lindner (Not Linder) Dalys, it is important to understand that not all Prussian Charles Daly guns were made by Heinrich Lindner, and not all Heinrich Linder sourced guns were sold by Daly (SD&G). While Lindner produced the bulk of Daly guns for 30+ years, other high quality makers also sourced Daly guns. And Lindner produced either finished guns or partially finished guns to several other American retailers/makers including William Schaefer & Sons, EC Schmidt, James Donn, and Thomas Golcher. He also retailed a few under his own name in Europe.

5. The above just scratches at the surface of the (often confusing and still not 100% definitive) history of Prussian Daly guns. The German Gun Collector Association put together an almanac of information on Charles Daly guns titled, "Prussian Daly Imports" that has the best collection of Daly information. It is available on their website.

Hopefully this helps more than it adds to the confusion,

Ken

Ken, I'm scratching my head to recall correctly, but back when I owned a Lindner Daly Featherweight 12ga, I posted here for some help. It was a later gun, made not long before WWI IIRC. Someone who responded here identified it as a 185 grade. And I believe the number corresponded with the price of the gun in this country.

Hi Larry,

For long stretches within the Prussian Daly production, model numbers often (but certainly not always) corresponded with the retail price of the gun.

In 1914, For example, your model 185 did in fact retail for $185 (in 12, 20, and 28 gauge). The 10 gauge model 185 was a little more, $200.

Ken

Quick side-note on the "Featherweight" designation on your gun: Assuming it was marked as a "featherweight" on the rib, and not just a very lightweight gun, this would add to this list of known featherweight guns produced when they no longer existed as an option in the catalog. I've recorded a couple made long after SD&G advertised them in their catalog.

This is a lightweight, 20 gauge Lindner Daly, grade 165:

To add a little more to this thread and hopefully shed some light on why the "when was it produced" question is so important to figuring out what Daly model you have and where it stacked-up in the line-up, I've added details of the hammerless SXSs offered by SD&G just 16 years apart. The first is a summary of the Daly models offered in 1892, and the second is a summary of the Dalys offered in 1908.

(Note this is a summary of Daly hammerless SXSs only. Daly drilling and SBTs, however, followed similar methodology. Apologies for the less-than-easy-to-read format below.)

SD&G Catalog (1892) - 302 Broadway, NY
Model Retail Price Details
120 $110 A&D action, fine damascus, extension rib, auto safety, hand matted rib, 10, 12, 16, 20 bore
120 FW $125 Same as 120, except 5.5- 6 lbs, 12 gauge "featherweight"
150 $175 Same as 120 with ejectors
200 $175 "Diamond Quality", Bernard, Turkish, or Chine damascus, extensively engraved, turkish walnut
250 $275 "Diamond Quality", Same as 200 with ejectors


SD&G Catalog (1908) - 302 & 304 Broadway, NY
Model Retail Price Details
118 $125 Krupp fluid steel barrels, dolls head ext., fine line engraving, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28 gauge
135 $140 12, 16, 20 gauge $150 - 10 gauge, $200 - 8 gauge Same as 118 w/ cross bolt, 8, 10, 12, 16, 20 gauge
185 $185 12, 16, 20 gauge $200 - 10 gauge Krupp barrels, ejectors, sideclips, cross bolt, additional engraving, 10, 12, 16, 20 gauge
225 $225 Diamond Quality, Krupp Special or Witten exclesior steel barrels, extractors, extensive engraving, 12 gauge only, 7 - 8 lbs
275 $275 Diamond Quality, 12, 16, 20 gauge $300 - 10 gauge Same as 225 w/ ejectors
325 $325 Diamond Quality, Krupp Special or Witten Excelsior steel barrels, elaborate engraving w/ gold, ejectors, 12, 16, or 20 gauge,
375 $375 Diamond Quality, same as 325 w/ heavier relief engraving, 12, 16, or 20 gauge
500 $500 Regent Diamond Quality, Krupp or Witten barrels, all aspects to order, gold crown in action engraving


You can see the actual model numbers are completely different between the two catalogs. You can also see in the later catalog how many diamond quality models there are (as well as a regent diamond quality gun.)

Hi Greg; I recommend you talk to Amarillo Mike and Joe Wood about these guns. They know them like the back of their hands. Very excellent guns from what I�ve seen!!

Chukarman; That�s a beautiful gun. Is it a restock? I�m guessing maybe it is, but beautiful wood! Certainly doesn�t detract from the gun if a replacement.

That is a gun I bought - a rescue - good Damascus barrels but the rest was toast. Careful restoration on the metal. The original stock was terrible - below the metal in many spots. That is a piece of Turkish that was whittled out by Gary Goudy. He is a master. I love this 5.5lb. 20 gauge Lindner Daly!!