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Argo44 Offline OP
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==================================================================================================
16139 (early 1870)



Terry, I added it to the list above. You ought to post that gun in the "for sale" section. And I for one would very much like to see photos for history. Thanks. Oh, if any other Reilly's you've sort of forgotten about turn up, please let us know. Amazing..simply amazing.

16139
By the way I was contacted by Douglas Tate, who reminded that he wrote an article for DGJ in 1994 about a gold washed Reilly underlever hammer gun BPE rifle. He sent me the original 1992 ad and commented that the article was before the internet and thus research options were limited. Can someone please tell me which issue of DGJ this appeared in (Spring, Summer, etc?). There are 1994 issues for sale on the internet. Thanks. It has both Oxford St and Rue Scribe addresses, should be early 1870 and may now be the earliest Reilly in my records with rebounding hammers. I've added this gun to the above list as well.

Lot 580

E. M. REILLY & CO. A FINE AND RARE GOLD-
WASHED 12-BORE HAMMER PRESENTATION
RIFLE NO. 16139; 26-inch barrels, engraved and
etched with foliate scrolls, leaf sights to 200, frame,
rebounding barlocks, noseless hammers and rotary
under-lever engraved with lions in landscape and
scrolls 14 1/2-inch figured stock with pistol grip and
engraved heel plate, 10lb. 8oz., black powder proof,
stock cracked and repaired, horn fore-end tip missing.

Ł2,000-3,000

edit: Cancel appeal on the magazine issue above since Doug had sent me the data...and I'd just plain overlooked the information. I need lots of pictures these days.

These spectacular photos are from the Douglas Tate's DGJ article. If there are copyright issues...and it's now been 23 years since they were published...I'll delete them. Label is the generic 1860-1898 label. It does not have the 1867 Paris medals (1868-71 but occasional afterwards as well), nor does it have the rue Scribe branch address. It is 502 New Oxford St. so 1871-1882 time Frame. No scolloped corners; likely a reproduction label.


Last edited by Argo44; 10/13/18 12:26 PM.

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The article on the gold washed E M Reilly is in DGJ Vol 5, Issue 1, Spring 1994, pages 120-24.

Page 9 shows a different E M Reiily gun, and an ad for another rifle is on page 158.

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==================================================================================================
Reilly Bibliography


Thanks Terry...Doug also contacted me and I've ordered that issue. Which brings up the question of compiling a Bibliography on Reilly for future historians.

Can you by chance tell me off hand every DGJ that's had an article about Reilly? I know the following:
-- DGJ Summer 2015 - "EM Reilly; Purdey's Pretentious Rival" - John Campbell; describes Reilly as a Purdey wannabe.
-- DGJ Summer 2005 - "The Reilly Factor" - John Campbell
-- DGJ Autumn 2005 - “Bore Rifles Part II” - Sherman Bell; describes this rifle and his load development to get it shooting 3-3/4″ groups at 50 yards.
-- DGJ Spring 1994 (ordered).

Also Terry Weiland wrote a well received articles
-- "Shotgun Life" "Sipping the Grand Cru"(read it); also widely published in "Daily Caller" Sep 2016 and other on-line publications.
-- "Guns and Ammo" - Terry Weiland
-- "Gray's Sporting Journal" - April, 2007; "Jupiter's Nuts" Terry Weiland
-- "Gray's Sporting Journal" - April, 2009; "Catbird" - Terry Weiland
-- "Gray's Sporting Journal" - December, 2016; "Artistry, Emotion, and Things That Go Bang" - Terry Weiland
-- "Rifle Magazine" - Apr 2012; "Reilly 20 bore Hammer Gun - Terry Weiland

Other magazines:
— “Sporting Classics Daily” - Nov 23, 215; The Virtuous 12 Bore -
-- "Classic Arms Journal " - "The King of the Rifles" - Ross Seyfried (.577 Martini-Henry's)
-- Double Gun Classic" - Jul-Aug 2005. "The Reilly Factor" - John Campbell:

Books:
-- Vintage British Shotguns - Terry Weiland
-- Dangerous Game Rifles - Terry Weiland
— Gun Digest 2009
— Gun Digest 2014

-- "Wyman's Commercial Encyclopedia of Leading Manufacturers of Great Britain" P. 295-6.
-- "Our Gunmakers - E M Reilly & Co" - 2.5 page article from a rare Victorian periodical  
-- British Gunmakers Their Trade Cards, Cases and Equipment 1760-1860 - Neal Back
-- GUNMAKERS OF LONDON 1350-1850, by Howard L. Blackmore - 1986 Includes supplement
-- British Gunmakers: v. 1: London by Nigel Brown (Hardback, 2004)


I'll add to this list as I compile literature on Reilly. Certainly need to add "Wyman". In the meantime if anyone knows of other articles/books with info on Reilly, would much appreciate your sending it to me...I'll compile the Bibliography.

Last edited by Argo44; 09/11/18 12:39 PM.

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I mentioned this gun in the unknown SN XXXX post on Page 4. It's a Single barrel, 4 bore, percussion rifle so I think I'lll do it again. No Serial Number but as a muzzle loader with two groove rifling and with E.M Reilly, London in the rib - it has to be post 1858 and probably pre 1862.
-- First it has two groove rifling, something Terry Buffum raised earlier and we looked into a bit on his 8025 JC Reilly (page 8). Two groove rifling seems to have originated experimentally around 1845 and may have been popularized by Purdy in the early 1850 (need more research).
-- Second there may be an Indian connection to the Nizam of Hyderabad which is always of interest to me. - I've posted the story below (unclear whether the Nizam owned the Reilly).
-- and third - it's a 4 bore.
-- What's interesting is the barrels have a Birmingham Black Powder proof mark. That in itself is unusual and it doesn't have a SN..that's odd...so did he market the gun rather than make it? - if so he wouldn't have put a number on it.

E. M. REILLY FOUR BORE BELTED BALL PERCUSSION RIFLE.
SN NSN. Cal. 4 bore. (1.015 bore diameter, 1.120 groove diameter. Two groove). 26″ Tapered octagon twist bbl is mounted with one standing leaf rear, and “certifiable antique elephant ivory” blade front sight. Top flat is engraved “E. M. Reilly & Co. London”. Bottom flat is stamped with Birmingham black powder proof. Case hardened patent breech is engraved with large open scroll. Case hardened breech iron with integral fence is engraved with large shaded scroll. Large bar action lockplate is mounted with tall, round bodied, slightly serpentine hammer. Hammer and lockplate are engraved with more large open scroll. “E. M. Reilly & Co” is on front portion of plate. Trigger plate is mounted with germanic type double set triggers, and trigger must be set before lock can be cocked. Trigger guard with squared bow has shell finial, and is also scroll engraved. Full length stock with swan-necked butt, is of indeterminate tropical wood, and measures 14-7/8″ over blued steel buttplate. Stock features large germanic style swept shadow line left hand cheekpiece. A hand forged ramrod is held by single plain pipe. Drop at heel: approx 3″, drop at comb: approx 2-1/8″. Weight: 16 lbs. 6 oz. LOP: 14-7/8″. PROVENANCE: Invoice and correspondence regarding purchase and import of this rifle. Special Note: This item contains or is made of ivory. Do not bid on this lot unless you have read and agreed to our "Ivory Position Statement" and the "Waiver of Legal and Financial Risk to James D. Julia in regards to your Purchase of an Ivory Object." This information is located in the front section of our catalog. CONDITION: Fine, as rebuilt and refinished. Metal parts retain nearly all of sympathetic refinish. What appears to be old restock is completely refinished, with large repair pegged onto toe and 1-1/2″ crack at left rear of breech iron. Bore is good, shootable, with considerable pitting. Lock is crisp. Set trigger works. An interesting big bore rifle showing what is most probably South African restocking. 49958-37 MGM62 IVORY (4,000-7,000)





Here is the story:

http://revivaler.com/four-bore-rifle-two/

Last edited by Argo44; 05/16/18 12:37 PM.

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Hi,new here. I have E.M. Reilly hammer gun 17495. 12b sleeved under push lever w/horn knob. #1 on rib,Tang & forearm. J. Purdy patent 1182 on water table. Tight gun shoots well. (11th place in last year's southern sxs) Will post pics if interested.

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Stake...that's what the line's for and the Reilly owners would value a view of your gun. I'll add the SN to the list above. 17495 should be 1871. Would much appreciate your letting us know the address on the rib. It should have the Rue Scribe, Paris address (but this was sometime omitted). And nice shooting.


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I haven't looked at all the issues, but the DGJ index 1 (1990-1996) gives the following EM Reilly references:

-Vol 4, Issue 1 (pg 115)
-Vol 4, Issue 2 (pg 45)
-There are quite a few Reilly references in the 1990-1996 index.

DGJ index 2 (1997-2005)
-Vol 9, Issue 1 (pg 116)
-Vol 10, Issue 1 (pg 68)
-Vol 13, Issue 1 (pg 133)
-Vol 15, Issue 2 (pg 143)
-Vol 15 Issue 3 (pg 9)

I don't think DGJ has issued an index 3 yet.

Ken

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Many thanks Ken....


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Yes Oxford st and Rue Scribe on rib. Will work on pics when gun comes back from Smith for post season ck up. Also correction on southern 14th place hammer division. (I always shoot better in my memory than real life!)

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Reilly Military Rifle clones: In case I get hit by a bus or something, I’d like to pass along to the Reilly community my observations on Reilly and “Military Guns.”

Reilly's business model from the beginning was to produce a quality product, cheaply and deliver it rapidly. He sold used guns, and put his name on guns he was an agent for (Trantor revolvers, Henry rifles, etc.). And, unlike Purdey, Holland & Holland, etc., Reilly made hundreds of military rifle clones over the life of the firm. There was a very good business reason for doing this. Britain at the time was a nation of hunters - if you were to aspire to a certain class, you had to hunt just like you had to gamble; It was the heyday of the British Empire and British colonial officials and officers going abroad wanted their own guns; they took military clones because it enabled them to use military issue ammunition.

In addition from at least 1840, when J.C. Reilly first displayed a mortar bomb he designed, the Reilly’s did go after one big prize: a British Army military contract for small arms. He did this with the Prince patent breech loader (1855), The Greener breech loader (1862), and the Reilly Comblain breech loader (1868).

This led Reilly to produce copies of prominent breech loaders on the market at the time. He rarely numbered these rifles (though sometimes he did) for reasons to be explained. These guns are not the lovely, engraved, graceful Damascus barreled side by sides associated with Reilly; but this post is necessary to understand the company’s business philosophy and its ambitions - he did not want to compete with Purdey - he wanted business..he wanted to undercut Purdey selling quality wares at half the price - and EM’s business model was successful - for instance in 1880 he sold 660+ numbered guns (in addition to used guns and guns made under license); Purdey sold 238; Holland & Holland 200.

Following are examples of Reilly military rifle clone’s produced on the following military designs:
— 1853 .577 Enfield muzzle loader, percussion rifle.
— 1855 Prince patent breech loading rifle
— 1862 Green Brothers patent breech loader rifle
— 1866 Snider Enfield rifle
-- 1868 Reilly Comblain breech loader
— 1871 Martini Henry rifle
— 1902 Enfield SMLE .303 bolt action mag-fed rifle. (yes Reilly fans…read on)

==================================================================================================================================
1853 Enfield:




.577 Enfield officially designated the P-1853 Enfield Rifle Musket: In October 1853 the British Army, after extensive trials adopted the .577 muzzle-loading percussion hammer gun as the official rifle of the Army. It was widely regarded as the finest military muzzle loader in the world from 1853 until it was supplanted in the 1860’s by breech loaders. This was the gun that armed the British Army during the latter stages of the Crimean War, the Mutiny in India and much of the Confederate army and the Union Army during the War Between the States aka the War of Northern Aggression.



It had 3 groove rifling, fired a .577 minie ball, and had a revolutionary adjustable backsight. Reilly made Enfields and usually put his Serial Number on them. He may have made these from scratch - he did not order Enfield parts from the armory and assemble them. (In later Enfields - Sniders and Martini's the Enfield factory would ship parts to the firm wanting to sell a replica or clone). Here are a few examples of Serial Numbered Reilly 1853 Enfields:

11227 - A numbered Enfield, which the seller claims was made in standard military configuration and engraved and assembled by Reilly. It has E.M. Reilly & Co., New Oxford St., London on the rib. The SN is where is should be, on the tang behind the trigger guard. The seller claimed it should be 1861. The SN indicates it was indeed numbered circa 1860.



Xxxx - An unidentified sporterized Enfield made by Reilly from a Polish site. Note the sight which identifies it as an Enfield clone; Note the engraving.



xxxxx - 2 band 1858 .577 short Enfield with no SN labeled on the receiver Reilly, New Oxford St., London.



12079 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 & 502 Oxford Street, London; .451 cal. Rifle; Percussion, muzzle loader. (1st “315 Oxford St.” address identified on a surviving Reilly gun rib). 12079 should have been numbered circa 1861.



==================================================================================================================================
1855 Prince Patent


In 1855 London gunmaker Frederick Prince patented a breech loader. It was tested by British Ordinance and outshot the just adopted .577 Enfield muzzle loader in rapidity of fire and accuracy at 300 yards. It was called “beyond comparison the best breech loader” in a testimonial signed by twelve of the best known London gunsmiths (Reilly included?). Ordinance refused to adopt it regarding it as too complicated (and face it - they didn't like new-fangled stuff). In 1859 a group of London gun makers including Manton, Wilkinson, Samuel Nock, Parker Field and Tatham (and Reilly?) petitioned Ordinance to reconsider the decision. It was turned down.

Reilly had some sort of undefined relationship with Prince...the same crowd of gun makers were with Prince and with the Green Bros later. Green Bros an Prince had a partnership for awhile that dissolved in 1959; Reilly got manufacturing rights for Green Bros breech loader in 1862. Again, when you look at who was friends with whom, the same suspects show up so Reilly had to be part of the group advocating for Prince.

Prince’s Patent rifles were produced by a several different British gunmakers including Prince’s own company Prince & Green, Wilkinson’s, E.M. Reilly and Isaac Hollis & Sons. The rifles were made in various calibres from the British army’s standard issue .577 to much smaller rook and rabbit hunting guns .24 and .37 calibre.

http://www.historicalfirearms.info/post/130088370814/frederick-princes-breech-loading-rifle-in/embed

In view of the fact that Reilly built Prince breech loaders, one must assume EM Reilly was one of the 12 prominent gun makers who testified about the Prince in 1855 and was part of the 1859 petition, possibly with the hope of participating in a lucrative Ordinance contract.

Here are two surviving Reilly Prince Patent guns which he has serial numbered - usually meaning he produced and made the parts for the gun himself:

10782 - Reilly, New Oxford St. London. .577 cal; Rifle; single barrel breech loader, Frederic Prince patent (circa1858)



11645 - Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. 100 bore; Rifle. Prince patent, single barrel, breech loader, (circa 1860)


Last edited by Argo44; 09/11/18 12:41 PM.

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