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I have not come across any Reilly catalogues in my travels, unfortunately...

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1868-1885 - Reilly and 2 rue Scribe, Paris


For history the following will address several questions about Reilly in Paris starting out with location and the name of the manager of his shop:

In February 1868, following his huge success at the 1867 Paris Universalle exposition, Reilly opened a store on 2 rue Scribe, in the Grand Hotel, the just opened prestigious hotel near the Opera. Here is the map of the location. In addition this post will address the multiple claims that he later at some indeterminate time opened a shop at 29 rue du Faubourg Saint Honore, an unlikely occurrence.



The Grand Hotel was opened by Empress Eugenie the wife of Napoleon III in Summer 1862. It was and remains one of the most prestigious hotels in Paris. Reilly’s decision to place his shop there was an indication of business confidence and his business acumen which emphasized location, location, location. Reilly immediately added 2 rue Scribe to his advertisements (the first one found is: PALL MALL GAZETTE, London, 12 Feb 1868: E. M. REILLY and CO., 502 NEW OXFOD STREET, London. Branch Establishments- 315, Oxford-street, London ; and 2, Rue Scribe, Paris) and to his gun ribs (the first one identified is SN 14983). He occupied this store until it was closed in Late July 1885. This is attested to by hundreds of advertisements and dozens of existing serial numbered and non-serialed numbered guns sold with the address on the ribs and on trade labels in the cases. Below is a best estimate of the location of his store.





What happened to the store during the September 1870-Jan 1871 siege of Paris by the Prussians during the Franco-Prussian War is unknown. Then of course the Commune of Paris seized control of the city from March 1871 until its bloody suppression by the French Army under MacMahon in late May 1871. The manager of 2 Rue scribe was likely a fellow named Monsieur Poirat, who in Sept 1871 offered to sell 6,000 Chassepot rifles to the French military government under the 3rd French Republic which replaced Napoleon in Sep 1870. See below entry - 14 Sep 1871 Assemblee National session. Further research is necessary to pin down the identity of Armurier Poirat. (edit: by the way, I've noted that Birmingham Small Arms in 1871 was making Chessepot actions - wonder if this was to have been the source of M. Poirat's guns?). **EDIT: Reilly was prosecuted in October 1870 for sending 2,000 cartridges to his store in Paris clandestinely, which violated British neutrality in the conflict. This may be why Reilly never followed through on selling the Chassepots.



Advertisements to support the above inevitable conclusion that Reilly was at 2 rue Scribe continuously for 18 years can be posted. Alternatively instead of posting 500 advertisements from 1868-85, researchers could just check out the trade label post above.

However, the numerous and wide-spread assertions on the internet by virtually everyone who has written about Reilly in the past must be first addressed that
...1) He closed Rue Scribe in the early 1870's then miraculously reopened it at the identical location 10 years later. - this has been taken care of above and this claim is erroneous.
...2) That at some point he opened a shop at 29 rue du Faubourg, St. Honore...which is addressed below.

===================================================================================================================================
1880's - Reilly and 29 rue du Faubourg, St. Honore, Paris


...2) and at some point he allegedly opened a store at 29 rue du Faubourg Saint Honore. This claim is so wide-spread (perhaps started by Nigel Brown in British Gunmakers, v.I?) that it has become an "urban truth." However, not a single advertisement with this address, a gun with that address on a rib, a trade label has been found in the two years of this research into Reilly. If anyone knows how this started or can support a claim that Reilly ever had a shop on this street please post the evidence.

Rue du Faubourg Saint Honore has been a prestigious street since its incorporation into the Parisian city limits in the early 19th century. Today it is ground zero for Fashion - Hermes, Jacombe, Chanel, etc. But there was at least one Armurier located at 24 rue du Faubourg in the late 19th-early 20th century (Pirlet) so one supposes perhaps Reilly could have had a store-fromt there for a little while at some time or another. Note, however, that the address is a hotel...there are two store windows on either side of the entrance and one in 1880 was occupied by an English tailor. In the 1930's Coco Chanel had one of her apartments at the hotel - the suite above the door.

1901 photo of rue du Faubourg Saint Honore. 24 rue du Faubourg (location of Armurier Pirlet) is the first store on the right of the photo (where the two women are standing; the one with the Venetian looking 3rd floor). 29 rue du Faubourg would be 50 yards down the street on the left. 24 rue du Faubourg burned down in 1903 to be replaced by the current building occupied by Hermes.



This is 29 rue du Faubourg (allegedly once a Reilly location) today....there are two store fronts on left and right of entrance:



This is a view of a bill from John Hopper from 1880. He was an English tailor located at 29 rue Faubourg. The logo on the bill is from the 1878 exposition universelle in Paris. I considered that perhaps Reilly met Hopper there and at some point Hopper might have acted as a mail drop for Reilly. There is nothing more in history about Hopper however, and somehow this seems unlikely. (Note the Coco Chanels apartment above the hotel entrance):



As mentioned above there was at least one gun shop (Armurier Pirlet) located on that street at 24 rue du Faubourg, where "a dozen artisans" worked. So theoretically it's possible another armurier (Reilly) might have been located nearby.



The above photos show that it is unlikely but vaguely possible that Reilly somehow could have had a shop on rue du Faubourg if one accepts that he never used the address in advertisements or on guns. It was a prestigious location which Reilly would have liked. But this seems very far-fetched. So if anyone has any info confirming this location as a Reilly address, please post the evidence. Otherwise and until proven, this should be regarded as an "internet legend."

Edit: Roy Forssburg in "Answers" provided a long history of Reilly a few years ago. He said it had taken him 10 years to compile (before the internet)... It was until now the best recounting of Reilly history; yet there were errors in it. He had this post: "1883... A trade label of this period shows “16, New Oxford Street, 277, Oxford Street & 29, Rue Du Fabourg, St Honore, Paris.” (sic). If Roy reads this, please provide access to the case label/trade label. It may be unique.
http://www.answers.com/Q/Where_can_you_f...on_serial_15346

Last edited by Argo44; 12/07/18 08:34 PM.

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===================================================================================================================================
1868 - 1890 - Reilly and Emperor Napoleon III


Continuing the Reilly in Paris theme - In this post I'll attempt to provide more clarity to the Reilly claim to have provided guns to Napoleon III of the 2nd French empire.

Here is are typical Reilly Advertisements with this claim ("FOURNISSEURS BREVETES DE S.M L'EMPEREUR"). The ads appeared from 1868 to 1871. They didn't last long - Napoleon III was captured by the Prussians at Sedan 4 Sep 1870 and the 3rd French Republic was declared immediately thereafter. The ads with the claim, however, continued to appear in travel guides in 1871 and 1872-they evidently had been written and printed before the Sedan disaster.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Now what guns did Reilly provide to "Son Majestie l'Empereur" (his majesty the Emperor)? Here's a clue from this board.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums...rds=Sturtevant&Search=true#Post99057

David Trebalien (crossedchisels) had the history and one of the guns; Dr. Drew posted the pictures. Here is David's comment: "Thanks to Dr Drew, Once again for posting the 20bore E M Reilly, I have the 12b also Cased with allLoading Goodies. The letter along with the 2 Guns is, European Royalty and the Reilly Invoice shows just how Mr Sturtevant of Newport R.I.U.S.A. brought the Guns to America.I am not the owner, just the Researcher/Cleaner/Photo'Snapper".The Empress Euginie, Mother of Napoleon lll. Used the 20b Quite Often' I hope to get the story into "ONE of the Glossie's...Some Grand Photos. The Guns are the Quality expected from London Best Makers of the period. The stripped-down photos will show this...DirtyDave /cc".

I've written Dave to try to get more info (Eugenie was wife not mother). Dr. Drew had this label on file but no other pics; It was SN 17536 (per chart on page 9, 1871 - a 12 bore SxS muzzle loader - instructions printed on the label - Reilly addresses at 502 Oxford Street and 2 rue Scribe on the label. - Handwriting is in English not French.
1871 of course is after the fall of the 2nd empire making the claim that this gun was given or sold to the Emperor's family a bit suspect!!! Still Reilly retained the medals he won at the 1867 Paris Universelle on his trade labels and ads for 1871 and for some ads 1872. The Emperor died in 1872. ),

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

And here is 1868 Reilly publicity in a French catalog which has possibly the worst advertising poem in the history of commercial ditty's. However, it has a revealing quote from journalist-writer/politician Anatole de la Forge, which I'll translate, then the poem makes grandiose claims, takes a swipe at Purdey and other "establisment" London gunmakers. Then goes on to declare an intention to (I think) conquer the American market.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Translation: "Extract from the magazine 'Le Siecle' the Century), December 26th 1867. Among the English private industrial products (at the Paris Universelle exposition of 1867), one finds a series of arms with the most beautiful finish and an execution beyond compare. Amongst the first rank are these admirable shotguns and hunting rifles from the house of E.M Reilly and Co., and we applaud the decision by the jury which awarded to this house the gold medal of honor."

Tis for PRESENTATION that they meet renown,
Those in '67 at Paris shown. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
And did the whole England outshine
Were purchased for the Grand Duke Constantine
In part, and the rest Count Orloff are thine;
. . . . . . . .2. Russians and no fake news here
To sole Empire in Europe they attain,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3
They've now an establishment beside the Seine,. . . . . . . . . .4
There they stand, Sol irradiated Tor!
They've been commission'd to supply the Emperor. . . . .5
Some fitted up they gorgeously adorn
For eastern princes at the rising morn. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .6
But that which Freemen of the West require
Is Science and Art borne even higher;
ďż˝ No objection to good Damascened designs,. . . . . . . . . .7
For those together blended fame assigns
A place-beyond all we in London know
To Messrs. E.M. Reilly & Co.
What other houses charge sixty-five pounds
For, and keep you four or five months (which astounds)
,. . . . .8 (take that Purdey)
In waiting for; one exactly the same
For which only ÂŁ45 they claim -
Having it ready too in thirty days
Or less, for which they merit highest praise. . . . . . . . ...9
Exactly the same I've already said
The Gun shall be, by my Art-Heroes made,
But only here to give what's rightly due
You may be able thus to strike more true;
No anxiety need the nations feel
Who with our intelligent firm would deal,
For I've them in their mode of business tracked . . . . . . .10
Their works found for any clime ready packed,
Then again independently of this
Their assortment in the metropolis
Is all unrivaled, wherefrom to select,. . . . . . . . . . . . ..11
Our Delegates witness that I'm correct,
Here they purchased Guns for Presentation;
For such our firm's renown'd to our nation
Uprising in the West I introduce them,. . . . . . . . . . . ..12
Their Guns may each be styled science' gem
I bear them o'er the main, for 'tis my belief
Each Pioneer Family to be its Chief,
Could not a present more acceptable. . . . . . . . . . . ..13
Give, thus on the reciprocal principle
And amicable, may I rank Donor
Thro' those who won the Medal of Honor,. . . . . . . . ..14
Where arts myriads of the world had striven,
Thy pledge of immortality was given
In the mental battle of nations '67,. . . . . . . . . . . . ...15
On the bona fide Manufacturers
The practical and active firm, confers
Thy bard this lay triumphant, from all beneath
The sky of England, Bay and Laurel Wreath,
Even as they rank in all great Britain 1st,
Be their deeds in highest literature rehearsed;
To many reams are their productions sent
They're well represented at the Orient,
And I will place them far above the rest
In the great market of the Boundless West. . . . . . . . . ...16


1. "'67 at Paris" - refers to the medals he won an the Paris Universelle Exposition

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

2, Were purchased for the Grand Duke Constantine; In part, and the rest Count Orloff are thine;: It looks like he sold his entire 1867 Paris Universelle exposition stock of guns to two Russian Grandees...Grand Duke Constantine Nikolayevich Romanoff and Count Nikolay Alexandrovich Orloff. "Grand Duke Constantine was an accomplished man and the second son of Czar Nikolas I. Count Orloff, of the famous Orloff family, was Russian Ambassador to Belgium from 1860-70 (when Russia along with Britain guaranteed Belgian independence) and then Paris (1870-82), both very sensitive diplomatic posts. Reilly could have claimed to have provided guns to the Russia Tsar's.

..........................Grand Duke Constantine Nikolayevich...................................Count Nikolay Alexandrovich Orloff

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

3. "Sole Empire in Europe" is a mystery. Napoleon III had declared a "French Empire" in Dec 1852. But there was an Austrian Empire which became Austro-Hungarian Empire in 1867 and a Russian Empire at that time. And an Ottoman Empire though Europeans would hardly consider it "European." (Classic definition of "European" is - participation in the Crusades, reformation and 30 years' War.)

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

4, The reference to the "establishment by the Seine" refers to the opening of 2 Rue Scribe (Feb 1868). - (see post above re rue Scribe)

5. "commission to supply the Emperor" must be origin of his claim in Reilly advertisements for a couple of years 1868-70-1 to be a supplier of guns to Napoleon III and that's where David's gun references come in - more below.

........................President then Emperor Lewis Napoleon III........................................Empress Eugenie
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

6. "For eastern princes at the rising morn": Reilly had an office in Calcutta and an agent in Madras and sold numerous presentation guns to Indian Rajah's.

......SN 16139 (Douglas Tate's Double Gun Journal article 1994).................................................SN 12532 (See chart for date)
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

7. "good Damascened designs": Reference to Reilly Damascus barrels

8. What other houses charge sixty-five pounds; For, and keep you four or five months (which astounds) This is a clear swipe at Purdey and the English gun establishments - "They'll charge you 60 pounds for a gun and you'll have to wait months." (A few months earlier in London, Purdey had sent an arched-eyebrow note to Reilly's store at 315 New Oxford - next door to Purdey - objecting to some words by a Reilly salesman, who apparently had told a buyer that a gun in Reilly's store was proofed by Purdey but was half the price because of no Purdey name (or did the salesman say the customer could get a gun at Reilly's which was as good as a Purdey but for half the price?) (from Terry Weiland's excellent article "Reilly of Oxford Street" in 2014 Gun Digest). This little dig was probably Reilly's come-back.

9. In waiting for; one exactly the same; For which only ÂŁ45 they claim ;Having it ready too in thirty days; Or less, for which they merit highest praise. i.e.: Reilly will charge a quarter less and you'll get it in less than 30 days!

10. For I've them in their mode of business tracked -; This lays out the Reilly business model in spades - he was not trying to be Purdey as John Cambell claimed in his 2015 piece in Double Gun Journal- he planned to undercut the prestige makers in price, deliver the goods 6 times as fast and give a really quality product at the same time, making up for less profit per gun by (relative) volume of sales. (Reilly at this time and throughout the 1870's sold three times as many numbered guns as Purdey along with massive traffic in licensed and used guns.)

11. Is all unrivaled, wherefrom to select: Extolls the selection a buyer can find at the Reilly stores in London.

12. Uprising in the West I introduce them. Plans to expand into the American Market

13. Each Pioneer Family to be its Chief,; Could not a present more acceptable. A perfect present for the head of a pioneer family

14. Thro' those who won the Medal of Honor. Refers to the 1867 Paris Universelle gold medal

15. Again refers to the Paris Universelle

16. And I will place them far above the rest; In the great market of the Boundless West. Go West young man. Within a year he had an American Agent - Joseph C. Grubb & Co. in Philadelphia and he was one of three English Breech-loaders listed in the 1871 Johnson Great Western Gun Catalog:

1871 J. H. Johnston Great Western Gun Works catalog:
Muzzle loader = sold as "English", "Belgian", "American", only Greener is called out by name
Breech loader = Greener, Westley Richards, E. M. Reilly & Co

Notice that Grubb ranks Reilly with Purdey, Greener, Westley Richards, Scott...and does NOT include him in the "cheaper English guns."

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

And the end of Napoleon III and Reilly's claim to an attachment to the Royal family - Sedan September 1870 (Notice how much Bismark looks like US Grant in his dress):

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Last edited by Argo44; 09/17/21 03:35 PM.

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Argo44, You really need to write a DGJ article, and maybe a book.


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1840's - Reilly and the pepperpot (facetious)


Getting there....slowly. slowly Reilly, a very prominent gun maker of the 19th century emerges from the shadows and there are enough guys here who shoot Reilly's who can attest to their quality.

Actually I suggested an article to Dan Cote at DGJ via e-mail pointing out that the last article on Reilly in 2015 had some errors in it...heard nothing back. Douglas Tate who is a gun magazine editor suggested I write something for his magazine but there is so much. I think the key research is dating the guns...from that comes history, labels, and verification of frauds....that would be a relatively easy article to write with a fold out reference sheet for auction houses and gun dealers to use. But maybe a book would be more in order...the more I get into the subject.

And I find his relationship to the 19th century period (oh heck to the era of that famous reprobate FLASHMAN)...fascinating. (And Flashmen allegedly knew all these people - Bismark, Napoleon III, Slept with the Empress, was at Rorke's Drift, Charge of the Light Brigade, met Orloff....the greatest, funniest, bawdiest and - while fiction - maybe most psychologically accurate history of British imperial expansion in the 19th century). (I'd bet that pepperpot in Flashman's hand was sold by Reilly, except it was before the 3rd Sikh war..pre-1847 Reilly move to 502 Oxford Street and I haven't found any Reilly pepperpots with 316 High Holborn on the rib) -
HOLD ON - WAIT A MINUTE - ERROR...see below.




A Reilly's six shot 'pepperpot' pistol, c.1850 (Date obviously wrong-with that address it's pre 1847), the barrel tips engraved with stiff leaves, struck with proof marks with underfire ring trigger,
profusely engraved action inscribed 'Reilly 316 Holborn, London, J. R. Cooper's patent', barrel 8.5cm overall 19.5cm
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...fc-a4480112aa71


Last edited by Argo44; 09/11/18 01:17 PM.

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1825 - 1912 - Reilly's business model


Reilly’s business model from the first days of the firm was clear and spelled out numerous times in numerous ways.
— Put out an excellent high-quality gun
— Respond with alacrity to orders
— Beat everybody’s prices.

The poem in the advertisement above claims he could fill a high-quality order in under 30 days while the “establishment”..the Purdey’s, Holland and Holland’s, took months and later even years. So how did he do this? How did he fill orders in three weeks for the prices he charged undercutting everyone yet with the exquisite quality and delicate balance that is the Reilly hallmark? It’s not for nought that when I first touched the Reilly I bought, the one which started this researchSN 34723, it felt like a rapier and everything else like battle axes. The answer to this question may also answer the question of whether Reilly “manufactured” his own guns.

A lot has been written about Reilly and others being supplied barrels, actions, etc. “in the white” from Birmingham. Reilly owners have noted similarities with Westley Richards, Webley, W.C. Scott. One writer noticed that some Reilly actions were identical to those built by Birmingham genius maverick Thomas Brian (from Terry Weiland’s excellent article “Reilly of Oxford”, 2014 Gun Digest). Reilly like many London gun makers at the time was not an innovator. Reilly’s only took out two patents, both military related (one in 1840 for a mortar bomb and one in 1869 for an explosive bullet)(I'll post those some day because I have them). Yet he successfully marketed beautiful guns on the cutting edge and is widely acknowledge as being amongst first three London gun makers to seize onto the LeFracheaux center-break gun concept.

In addressing his business model, here are a few facts:

1). Reilly did not serial number guns he did not “build.” This has been firmly established by this line. He Serial Numbered about 30,000 guns pretty much chronologically with the breaks noted in 1847 and the off shoot numbering by J.C. Reilly the “7000 series” mentioned above. By “build” he had to have made them….even if he used parts in the rough from others.

2). Reilly’s (father and son) engraving, from the time he was a jeweller/plateworker is almost immeditately recognizable for its style and quality. Almost exclusively with designs and roses - no animals, dogs, ducks or hunters. And he engraved everything that came in the door, bayonets, swords, Colt, Trantor, Adams revolvers, 1853 Enfields, Martini-Henry’s, etc. etc.



3). Reilly’s stocks were subjects of comments even in his own time and today are almost immediately recognizable. He was one of the first to use French Walnut and to see a Reilly poorly restocked is like looking at a Leonardo poorly framed.



4). In the 1881 census, according to Brown (and I have not seen these census records - so this is secondary sourcing), Reilly claimed to be employing 300 workers which included engravers, finishers and stockers. There has been a lot of hemming and hawing and harrumphing trying to reconcile this figure with a pre-conceived notion that Reilly didn’t make guns.

5). Reilly was known to stockpile barrels at least after EM’s death.
.........-- On this line Toby Barclay mentioned that he had sold SN 35079, a 12 bore. SxS SLE shotgun. It was numbered circa 1900-1901 yet Toby remarked that the barrels were proofed pre-1896.



..........-- Also per above, Terry Lubzinski's 12 bore is SN 303xx and should have been numbered about 1891, yet the barrel has "Not for Ball" which went out in 1887.



6). Reilly advertised having a shooting range where prospective customers could fire at targets 300 yards away - no one has ever found that range but unlike the anguish about his “factory” no one seems to question its existence.

May 1851 advertisement relating to the Crystal Palace exposition:


Inevitably a conclusion must be reached that the 1881 census is indeed correct:
1. Reilly stockpiled barrels,
2. stockpiled actions,
3. finished his own guns,
4. stocked the guns himself,
5. and engraved his own guns.
6. The grace and artistry of his guns are his own - but he was aware of this talent too - see the poem above and his immodest mention of “art heroes,” And by the way the French were too…Here are quotes from French articles at the time claiming that Reilly’s genius came from his contact with France via rue Scribe.



"Almost all the shooters used English guns of large caliber. We saw in their hands magnificent arms signed Purdey, A & Ch. Lancaster, Grant and certainly E.M. Reilly, that English gun maker who has been established at rue Scribe for two years in Paris itself. The guns of M. Reilly have gained a lot from contact with and a taste for Parisian art, and have acquired a finish, a perfection in wood, an elegance that one does not always find in English made arms...."



"This year I saw at the Game Fair a hammer gun with round action from the 1870's signed by the London gun maker Reilly & Co., of an elegance combined with a delicateness of finish and a solidity of fabrication, which placed it at the level of the best gun of no matter what of the last century,"

I’m going to follow-up on this, especially expanding on the question of engraving - because at the time engraving was artisanal; everybody did it and they were not paid a lot for it.

But one thing Reilly owners can do to test this theory is to take a look at the date their barrels were proofed (if they were a Reilly product - they were proofed in London) and compare these dates to the dates the guns were serial numbered (see my chart on page 9 above). Terry Buffum has handled more Reilly’s than any man alive and I’d appreciate his opinion. Harry (HWK) - SXS40 has about 8 of Terry’s Reillys dating from 1856 to 1888 and could probably reinforce the theory just by looking in his gun closet.



I want to add this from his 1862 London exposition entry. Reilly guarantees the guns he makes. Later in the 1880's his ads guarantee everything he sells. But this ad is perhaps telling; the 50 yard range was at 315 New Oxford Street:


Last edited by Argo44; 09/11/18 01:18 PM.

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===================================================================================================================================
Thoughts on engraving


Before I lose this chat again, this is an interesting comment from the site "Engravers Cafe" on engravers from the 19th century by a poster "Highveldt," which is relevant to the above discussion on Reilly finishing his own guns. It was a comment on Terry Weiland's article on engraving in which Terry sort of said engraving was really used as a type of "stove paint."

https://books.google.td/books?id=de9XBAA...int&f=false

The chat was funny but very informative:
http://www.engraverscafe.com/archive/index.php/t-10485.html?s=cfbe6b81099c03ea2457b7cbdbf3f47e

Engraving is like....stove paint? I don't think that is what he said. Who knows what a so called gun writer ever means, but here is what he said: "The truth is, a bulino-engraved gun will never look as good as the day it comes out of its protective box. Every scratch and bump will deface the engraving until it looks like a flyspecked lithograph in a cheap saloon. At which point a coat of stove paint might not be a bad idea."

I do not care much for Mr. Weiland's writings, even though I have some of his books. Weiland quotes some of Mr. Greener's opinions about the gun trade in this article--a person I do not think I would have liked in his day. Although Mr. Greener was not found guilty of stealing the Anson & Deeley action design in court, many tradesmen of his day as well as I in this day think that he did steal it.

Weiland raises a point about the changes in valuation of engraving on a gun in UK. I am a English gun restorer and only a learner engraver (in order to repair some engraving on guns I restore). Engraving and engravers were just another craft/trade in the time of the E.M. Riley shotgun Weiland references. For example: E.J. Churchill sends a note and a set of barrels over to the excellent engraver Mr. Sumner on the morning of March 18, 1904 with the note reading: "Barrels of 1398 (gun number) To name (engrave the Churchill name and address), rough rib & engrave it these must be here tonight as they have to be blacked & go away tomorrow morning certain. Please Oblige; signed E.J. Churchill" From this note we can assume the Barrel blacker worked all night to get the barrels blacked for the customer gun to be shipped, as it usually takes 5 or 6 blacking cycles for a barrel to be completed--the blacker probably did not finish until late the next day.

In most shops, including the London best shops of Purdey, Holland, Boss, Stephen Grant and so forth engravers earned about the same as a head barrel maker, stocker and actioner. In 1875 Freedrick Beesley (later inventor of the Beesley spring opener action and which has been used by Purdey ever since they purchased the rights from Beesley in 1880) made 4 pounds six pence for the month, while J. Mace Sr., Engraver made about the same. During the same month J. Lucas, Purdey's famous engraver who developed the Purdey house style of engraving made the astounding amount of 8 pounds---This was twice the amount of wages to paid to any other Purdey craftsman.

In March 1936 at Purdey's J. Lovett, Engraver was paid 3 pounds, 8 shilling and 4 pence, while the famous Purdey actioner Ernest D. Lawrence was paid 3 pounds, 5 shillings.

However at the end of November 1952 Ernest D. Lawrence was earning 12 pounds, 9 shillings as an actioner and the young apprentice Ken Hunt, Engraver earned 3 pounds 5 shillings.

We all should rejoice that the demand in best quality English, Italian, German, Belguim and other shotguns (primarily demand driven by American buyers) has changed the fate and earnings of not only engravers, but the skilled gunmaker trades.

These are just some rambling thoughts of an old man who loves fine guns, mostly fine English guns.

Last edited by Argo44; 09/11/18 01:19 PM.

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1835 - 1898 - Reilly and airguns - repost


With nothing to do, in the middle of nowhere for a few weeks. I picked up a Sherlock Holmes Anthology and re-read "The Adventure of the Empty House"...the 1st story in the return of Holmes after his supposed death. A cracking good story...and since Col. Sebastian Moran tried to kill Holmes with an air-rifle (an event that Harry Flashman also participated in if you believe Flashman and the Tiger), I thought I'd repost the line on EM Reilly Air-Canes since the photos to it have been held hostage by an extortionist's website.



And by the way, Lewis and Clark carried an air-gun with them on their 1804-06 trek across America. It's in the NRA museum here in the DC area.



I'm going to do two things this time 1) explain why I think EM Reilly published his treatise on air guns in late 1847-early 1848 and not 1850 as is everywhere reported on the internet; 2) date the canes by the usual method of name on the gun/cane but also by the labels in the cases, an advantage of having dated the trade labels per above (understanding that the names the Reilly's put on their non-serial numbered firearms often varied).

Reilly's both were heavily into air canes and air-rifles throughout the 1830's-40's. as early as 1843 Reilly began advertising for "Improved Air Canes" by "Reilly Jnr" (Edward M. Reilly) - (and by the way, the company is advertised as "Reilly, Gun maker"...not J.C. Reilly, etc. I've never noticed this before and need to check out when this began).

...........09 Dec 1843, "London Illustrated News."


I'll also post this ad from "London Illustrated News," 24 Apr 1847 - which advertises Reilly, mentions "Reilly Jnr" and air canes ,and their brand new address at 502 New Oxford Street (note the name used on the ad - "Reilly"); and the advertisement clarifies the address: "Removed from 316 Holborn".



Which sets the stage for comments about EM Reilly's Treatise on Air Guns. Here is the reprinted cover.



Edward M. identified himself as “Reilly, Junr” (as in the 1843 advertisement above and in the 1847 ad after the move to Oxford Street)….The address of the firm on the title page is No. 502, New Oxford Street, “removed from 316 Holborn,” London. This phrase “removed from 316 Holborn” is telling. The Reilly’s quit using the "removed from Holborn" phrase in ads less than a year after the move, by the end of December 1847 per the dated serial numbers on guns and advertisements.

======================================================
Xxxxx August 1835 - March 1847. possible 1843?

Name: J.C. REILLY, 316 HIGH HOLBURN, LONDON
Description: This cane rifle consists of two parts painted black enamel which measures just under 38 inches including the screw on horn handle. The center joint ring is marked "REILLY 316 HOLBORN LONDON IMPROVED". The pump is screwed onto the upper portion to fill the chamber with air. The pump consists of an iron tube with brass ends and a screw on iron handle for the pump. The tube is marked "J.C. REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON". The lower portion of the cane houses the breech and firing mechanism. After the chamber is "pumped up", the two pieces are screwed together and the muzzle end has a brass tip which screws off and the attached wooden barrel plug comes out. The breech is opened by a sliding lever and is loaded with a round bullet through a round hole on top of the shaft. A key is then used to cock it and a small post "trigger" pops out of the side. The trigger is simply pushed to fire the rifle. The barrel is rifled and gauges at 38 caliber. It is equipped with a small blade front and notched rear sights.

Comment: The "Improved" engraving leads me to associate this cane with the above 1843 advertisements...
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/55/64/reilly-co-edward-m-air#detail



======================================================
Xxxxx August 1835 - March 1847

Name: J.C. REILLY, 316 HOLBORN, LONDON
Description: .41 CAL; RIFLED BBL, BORE GOOD, BLACK PAINTED FINISH, HORN CANE HANDLE, COMES WITH ORIGINAL PUMP, FIXED SIGHTS, ROUND BALL LOADS INTO A ROTATING BREACH, BUTTON TRIGGER, COCKING KEY INCLUDED, MAKER'S MAHOGANY TAKE DOWN CASE, BRASS MUZZLE PROTECTOR

Comment: This is the only Reilly pre-1847 move to New Oxford street label that Ive ever seen. It's fitting it's in an air cane case - that case stayed in closets.
https://ellwoodepps.com/joesph-charles-reilly-air-gun-cane.html
Comment:



======================================================
Xxxxx 1848 - 1855

Name: REILLY & Co., OXFORD STREET,
Description: 1
Comment: This label was used from 1848 to 1855 when two medals were added on either side of "London." The "take-down stock" for the air-cane is amazing, apparently covered in pebble worked leather.
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...4f-a41800b08eda



======================================================
7801 ?? circa 1855. (the date in the advertisement is clearly wrong)

Name: REILLY, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON
Description: REILLY LONDON A RARE CASED 28-BORE PERCUSSION COMBINATION WALKING-STICK GUN serial no. 7801. circa 1845 comprising of a 28 3/4in. re-browned octagonal damascus rifle barrel signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON` (renewed) small dove-tailed crescent fore-sight blued standing notch rear-sight with one folding leaf a 29 3/4in. re-browned damascus round shot barrel with octagonal breech section (unsigned) and an unsigned octagonal 32-bore 3in. re-browned damascus pistol barrel (probably a later addition) matching period London proofs together with a percussion under-hammer squared boxlock action with guarded trigger the top-tang signed `REILLY NEW OXFORD ST. LONDON`

Comment: I believe this Reilly air cane serial number, unlike the others, is authentic and is in the "J.C. Reilly 7000 series" which he began to use to differentiate himself from EM after they moved to 502 New Oxford Street in late March 1847 and which continued until c1858. The label is the one used from 1848-1855. I'd date the cane based on the label and SN as latter part of 1855.
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/aucti...f6-a4340134dc99




to be continued

Last edited by Argo44; 10/11/18 04:54 PM.

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======================================================
Xxxxx 1848-55


Comment: Classic 1848-55 label
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...c7-a78300d31617



======================================================
Xxxxx 1855-59


Comment: Label used 1855-59 with "Reilly" and the 1851 and 1855 exposition medals.
http://www.vintageairguns.co.uk/air-canes/?occur=1&album=47&photo=1748



======================================================
Xxxxx 1859 +

Name: E.M.Reilly &Co., New Oxford St.,London
Description: This is a totally complete 1850's Cane Air Gun including it's original pump and cocking key. The pump and the cane are signed "E.M.Reilly &Co., New Oxford St.,London. The cane looks to be about .36 cal. and retains it's original brass rod and cap.  It also has a front and rear sight.  The head of the cane has some wonderful scrimshaw work consisting of 3 panels . One Admiral Nelson in his full naval officers garb. The second one is a family coat of arms,which I'm told is the Prince of Wales. The third is  the battleship Victory.The head is made out of Alabaster and there's a minor chip on the top . E.M Reilly was famous for his caneguns and wrote"Treatise on Air Guns" in 1850.  The  gun works just fine . It holds it's charge when pumped up and cocks and fires . A really great and complete nautical Cane Air Gun. This outfit would fit equally well in a firearms, nautical or scrimshaw collection. Rarely seen for sale.

Comment: EM began to be used on gun ribs in 1859. Edward M. and E.M. were occasionally used on non serial numbered guns before 1859.
https://www.johnjhayeshistoricalcollectibles.com/proddetail.php?prod=e4



======================================================
Xxxxx 1859 +

Name: E.M REILLY, LONDON
Description: A 100-BORE PNEUMATIC AIR CANE 
SIGNED E.M. REILLY, LONDON, THIRD QUARTER OF THE 19TH CENTURY 
With sighted rifled brass barrel with rotating loading-drum, button-trigger and aperture for the cocking-key (key and muzzle-cap missing), signed on the case-hardened inner face at the join between the barrel and reservoir, dark horn handle, and retaining much original wood-effect painted finish throughout; together with AN 80-BORE BUTT-RESERVOIR AIR PISTOL, with turn-off two-stage barrel, scroll engraved brass action with iron 'flintlock' mechanism, and brass reservoir. The first 37ľin. (96.9cm.) long (2)
Comment: EM began to be used on Serial Numbered ribs in 1859. This may or may to apply to air guns.

Comment: The air canes sell for more than the Shotguns.
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/a-100-bore-pneumatic-air-cane-signed-em-5509870-details.aspx



======================================================
Xxxxx 1859-67

Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: A great cased air gun cane curio by E.M.Reilly of London. It comes with its own original wood case with an address label for "E. M. Reilly & Co" and there is a list of contents prepared by an earlier owner/seller. The list reads: "Reilly walking stick air rifle, about .40 brass bbl., multi-groove rifling, bore about perfect. Very powerful, complete with mold, pump, cocking key, extra valve, etc. When fully pumped up, these will shoot 20-30 shots full power, Breech loading. Weight 3 1/2 Pounds. Thumb trigger. Probably made about 1850." (A written description of air guns by Dike on page 357 of Cane Curiosa mentions E. M. Reilly of London, as a noted air gun maker and inventor. Additionally 35/6 shows a very similar cased piece by another maker.)

Comment: Classic 1859-1868 label which also was used (with variants from about 1879 to 1886). The Action house date is wrong.
https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/11244082_a-cased-air-gun-cane-curio-by-emreilly-of-london


Last edited by Argo44; 05/14/18 09:07 PM.

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======================================================
Xxxxx 1859 - 1867

Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description: Cased .36-caliber English Cane Gun . . . circa 1849  by E.M. Reilly & Company. Until the 1800s, specialist carvers, metal workers, and artisans produced canes and walking sticks by hand. However, the popularity of fashion and gadget canes fueled a market for their mass manufacture and subsequently helped lead to their demise. Canes became less artistic and reflective of current fashions.

Comment: 1859-68 label. If the label is correct, the auction house is off by 10-15 years in their dates.
http://www.greendragonsociety.com/Weaponry/Weaponry_Main_page.asp



======================================================
Xxxxx 1859 +


Comment: Cannot read the label. The name on the cane is E.M Reilly which normally indicate it was made after 1859. The Reillys, however, did put different variants on their firearms which were not serial numbered.
https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/air-canes/e-m-reilly-air-cane/



======================================================
Xxxxx 1868 +

Name: E.M REILLY & Co., OXFORD STREET, LONDON (502, NEW OXFORD STEET on case label)
Description: This is a rare, cased, Air Cane. Made of brass & steel it unscrews into 2 sections and when assembled measures 36" overall. The barrel section has a clean bore with crisp rifling (1cm at the muzzle approx. AA shot). The barrel section features a tiny blade foresight and 'V' notch steel rear sight.
The weapon fires moulded lead balls inserted in the barrel section at the loading port which has a small bolt feature. It is armed by means of its steel and brass air pump and fired by means of a steel winged trigger which is inserted into the underside of the rifle and twists to fire. The pump and trigger are present. The body of the pump is nicely marked by the manufacturer 'E.M. Reilly & Co, Oxford Street, London' (illustrated).

Comment: Classic 1868-72/3 label with the medals won at the 1867 Paris Universelle Exposition and the three addresses - Paris one is defaced, possibly by rubbing against a cane part?
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/aucti...1a-a5f00113573f





======================================================
Xxxxx 1868 +

Name: E.M REILLY & Co., LONDON
Description:

Comment: Note Paris Exhibition Medals 1867. There were three address but the Rue Scribe, Paris address has been deliberately obliterated. Somebody lost a girlfriend it looks like.…. Reilly Damascus work on the barrel?
http://www.network54.com/Forum/681456/thread/1362405040/4/A



======================================================
Xxxxx 1836-58?


And if anyone knows who bought these two canes, we'd like to see photos.
7. If the first has Joseph Reilly's name on it...it is not 1880...It has to be pre-1858 at least..and we need to see the label.
8. Ditto to the second with EM Reilly on the cane and label. Need to see photos of both.




======================================================
Xxxxx 1902-1904 +


Comment: This is the strange almost Circus-like label that is unique up to this point. It's difficult to read - but it is EM Reilly making it later than 1859. The attachable stock looks Reily-esque. (The label is now identified as 277 Oxford street and 295 Oxford Street = 1903-4; See label addendum below).
http://www.vintageairguns.co.uk/air-canes/?occur=1&album=47&photo=1425


Last edited by Argo44; 10/11/18 04:56 PM.

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