doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Gripping your gun

For comparison

7/8 oz. at 1160 fps in my 8 pound Smith = 12.7 ft/lbs of free recoil
1 1/8 oz. at 1150 in Stan's 9# MX = 16.7 ft/lbs
1 1/8 oz. at 1200 fps in a 10 pound trap gun = 16.2 ft/lbs
1 1/4 oz. 3 1/4 Dr. Eq. (1220 fps) in an 8# gun = 25 ft/lbs
1 1/4 oz. 3 3/4 Dr. Eq. (1330 fps) in an 8# gun = 29 ft/lbs
1 5/8 oz. 4 Dr. Eq. (1280 fps) in a 9# gun = 40 ft/lbs

There is an interesting collection of live action Live Bird and Inanimate Target (mostly 2 shots allowed) shooting here. The Live Bird loads were likely 1 1/4 oz. 3 1/4 Dr. Eq. and the reaction of the shooter and gun to recoil is clearly shown; many had their heads well off of the stock for the second shot
http://www.trapshooters.com/threads/vintage-live-action-trap-and-live-bird-shooting.514889/

Not trying to go OT, but the live action videos are a nice way to compare grips and the shooter's response to recoil for the second target

FLINCH......Drew, that should be a 4-letter word instead of 6! I flinched more before I started pulling a single trigger with the anterior DIP joint as opposed to mid aspect of the distal phalanx (fleshy part of finger) of the 2nd finger. Try that for a change, Drew ....really, it helped me a whole whole bunch. Sorry guys, but easier for me to explain to Dr Drew using this terminology. BTW, Fred Missildine from Sea Island, GA taught me that little bit of wisdom, many moons ago.

Thanks Buzz. Dan Lammers did magic tuning the locks on my Smith before he left Phoenix. A crisp let off is a thing of awe and wonder, helped my flinch enormously, and ruined any chance of using a gun with a mushy heavy trigger pull

Amen, brother.

SRH

Some interesting images

Monte Carlo, and no way could I rotate my hand like the fella in the foreground. Shooter in the background has a lower elbow and more anatomic grip



This is from the 1900 Olympic demonstration sport; Grand Prix de le Exposition au Tir aux Pigeons, Cercle du Bois de Boulogne.

Lunden won with his straight grip, Mackintosh of Australia on right with a POW



Lunder appears to have elevated his right elbow and rotated his grip somewhat like the guy at Monte Carlo



Mackintosh with a more anatomic position grip

Drew, I have at least two advanced degrees in flinching. It was so bad I was a walking shooting hazard. It was so bad that I quit for months only to find my flinch waiting for me when I returned. Tried using middle finger, shooting low gun, shooting a dozen different guns, shooting with a patch over my non shooting eye thinking my flinch had become a visual thing, then learning how to shoot left handed after 35 plus years as a right handed shooter.

Ended up shooting about 40-50k .410 shells left handed, over several years until my left handed shooting was competitive, 94-96 scores most days at Skeet with several 99's and one lucky 100 straight. Even learned how to shoot trap from the 16 yard line with a .410. Not as hard as most think it is. Then went back to shooting right handed over a full year by shooting some rounds left handed and some right handed. It really freaked out my squad, when I would shoot the first round left handed then shoot the next one right handed. Don't do that in registered targets if you do not know your squad mates. It will mess with their minds. Or do it if you want to mess with their minds. But thanks to a lot of .410 I out grew my flinch. It is still there from time to time but now days I can withhold fire and ride the flinch out well enough to break the bird at what are long range shots.

Anyone who has a decent flinch has my sympathy. They are such a bear to get rid of and you never know when they will happen.

The great J.A.R. Elliott with a straight grip Winchester 1893; similar hand position as the gentlemen at Monte Carlo



Capt. "Blue Rock" Money with his pistol grip Parker; lower elbow and more anatomic wrist

Flinches are bad, but there are more than one kind. I developed a flinch about 15 yers ago that would manifest itself as an inability to pull the trigger. I say should, but it still does from time to time. I would think "Shoot!" but my finger would not move, still does not move. I can recover in a split second and usually break the bird late.............sometimes very late............think, it's feet are about ready to alight on the ground. The better I am shooting, the less flinches I have. Average over the year..............maybe one flinch per 100 targets, but it used to be as bad as 5-7 per 100. I once asked Jon Kruger to help me with my flinches. His reply was "Who's going to help ME?

Back to the topic.............flinches have nothing to do with how tightly we grip our gun...........................or does it?

SRH

That's what it looks like when you look in the mirror, while holding a straight grip gun.

SRH

This hurts just to look at. Erminio Frasca, Italy, 2008 Bejing Olympic Trap. Comb is in his right nostril, thumb touching his nose, wrist contorted, and finger just touching the trigger