doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Lefever H - Extractor

For those interested the serial number is 25925 and matches on the receiver, barrels and forearm. Perhaps not noticeable in the first pics, the end of the extractor rod is filed flat on the bottom and in front of the hook there is a crudely cut V that doesn't look factory done. You can notice rub marks on the bottom rib in front of the extractor rod suggesting it my have been cut down/or perhaps that is rub marks from the forearm extractor hook.

Lefevers. Everyone another special case. Lots of changes over the years. Some things added and somethings dropped. Only maker I know who increased the amount of engraving as time went by on each grade. My early E, F, G and H have much less engravingcthan the later ones. Adjustments screws went away also. His was a fertile mind which seemed to be ever trying to improve his gun. Maybe he had to just to keep up with the times and other makers. Having a cup of coffee to discuss how and why he changed his doubles would be a very interesting.

My pivot lever 10 gauge is an E grade SN 10,515. There is no spring in the hole in the barrel lug where its stem fits. It does take an intentional effort to remove the extractor which is done by Springing the stem itself. When re-installing there is obvious interference between the top of the extractor projection & the bottom of the slot in the rib extension. Again the Stem must be sprung to re-install.

My next Lefever up the laddder is a G grade two hook gun, SN 20,633. Guess what, it indeed has a flat top extractor with no slot in the rib extension & the extra guide pin for alignment. It does however have a short slot milled in to the upper forward end of the extractor stem with a closed end. This is engaged by a screw in the forend iron when the forend is snapped on. With the barrels off the gun the extractor can be simply slid out. This gun does not have that slot in the stem.

This is a quite low SN for an H, am guessing it is a small hook gun as all the Large hook guns I am familiar with do not have the extractor stem visible forward of the hinge joint.

On my lowest numbered Large hook gun, a G SN 29,471 they had gone back to the extractor projection & rib slot. This seems to be continued on through remaining production & these have the slot blocked as mentioned. I had simply forgotten I had this one gun with the different set up using the guide pin rather than extractor projection as that was used both earlier & later.

On this early large hook G though it appears after the extractor was installed the walls of the slot were given a slight staking to prevent it coming out. If the extractor had to be removed this staking would have to be removed & then be re-staked after re-assembly. I like the screw or block retention a lot better.

I would bet this gun had some system of preventing the extractor from coming out when removing shells or empties with the gun assembled. Will probably take some careful searching to figure out what & where it is.

Yes, you probably could make such an alteration. But then you'd be altering the originality of the gun and obliterating a piece of the Lefever puzzle. That's why I said the solution is to simply be careful to not lose the extractor. It has been just fine as it is for 120 years, so why mess with it now? This kind of variation is part of the charm and interest in collecting Lefevers. But it is also a reason why it can be very difficult to find a matching part sometimes when you are doing a repair or restoration.

Jon;
If you note catalog prices over the years that Lefevers were produced they stayed essentially the same price per grade. Other makers were reducing the prices of their grades. I have always figured this was the reason for the engraving up-grades. Lefever stayed with the same price for the grade but up-graded the engraving, then added a lower grade at the bottom for the lower prices. On very early Lefevers E was the lowest grade, F was then added. In the very early 1890's with introduction of the two hook guns the G was added. Late in the 1890's the H was added & then in the very early 1900's the DS/I grade would become the last addition to the lower end of the line.

2-Piper, I agree but I still note that every other maker made their guns cheaper an plainer as they went while LeFever went up as they went. Also LeFever marked his grades to prevent retailer claiming a lower graded gun was a higher priced grade.

I have always wondered the classics what if about LeFever? What if he was born 20 years, later would his guns been so diverse? What if he had not suffered a almost total loss of everything due to a fire, would he have so many partners? What if he had a marketing genius for a partner would he have lasted longer? I never get the feeling he was a bad business man but more that he was always under financed or moving onto the next great concept before the last one had worked out. Ansley Fox was much like that as well.

I own a 12 gauge F extractor gun #25179. The extractor will fall out the barrels with the gun disassembled but not with the barrels on the receiver. The breech face prevents the extractor from falling out when assembled. The extractor looks just like yours.

I have learned to take the extractor out when cleaning the gun and then simply replace it.

Buck Hamlin offered to put a retaining screw in for me but I decided not to bother. Just have to pay attention and wonder why Uncle Dan laid this extra chore on me!

Miller, I wonder if your large hook G grade that has the slot in the rib extension staked to keep the extractor in place might have been something done by either a gunsmith or a previous owner? Now I have to remember to look at my other guns to see which version they have.

I briefly thought about doing some kind of alteration on one of mine after I briefly lost it under my work bench. But I'm pretty much against doing anything to alter originality. Besides, as Dr. P points out, the guns I have that don't have anything to retain the extractor can only have it come completely out when the barrels are removed.

I still find it kind of cool to think that even the most advanced collector doesn't know everything there is to know about these guns.

Keith;
That is of course a distinct possibility that the extractor slot was staked after it left the factory. There is no screw hole present in the rib extension so without the stake the extractor would simply pull out.

On none of mine though will the extractor pull out in removing shells. They either have to have a block removed, forend removed or an intentional effort made to spring the extractor out. These all require the gun to be disassembled.

I do not have as many as some collectors but do have from a low number of the 10,515 up to 73,338/73342 with the rest scattered between. I only have the two mentioned which are pre large hook. I have the E grade & two G's mentioned, then an FE @ #38,025. The rest are H grades & all of my H's number in the 40K range & up. Have these with & without the 1907 patent date so a fair assortment from different eras.