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I was looking at an ad on Guns International about a week ago for a " FRAPPER MORIN 12GA LIGHT WEIGHT FIELD GUN 6LBS 2OZ" and had planned to post a comment here (this gun has now been sold).

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101110666

The gun was identified as a "Frapper Morin" French gun. Well, even after all our posting here, the gun dealers still get it wrong. "Le Frapper-Morin" is the name of the retailer in Pontivy, Brittany. Here is the stamp of the retailer and the map of the location Pontivy.



Here is a French Newspaper from Pontivy with mention of Le Frapper-Morin, who like many French hardware stores in the 1930's dealt in Bicycles and other stuff too:'

"Le Journal de Pontivy". 23 September 1931: (I didn't want to pay the site to get the actual newspaper ad...so just copied the reference)


However, the question I had of this particular Saint-Etienne made gun was this mark on the Key which is identical to the mark on the "Screw-Grip" posted by Raimey above; I was going to ask whose mark is that "monkey riding the lion?"



Barrel flats from the Le Frapper-Morin gun:


On Raimey's image, bottom word is "Marque"....can't make out the top one but you could ask the dealer.

Ok this question has been asked before, - here is the Monkey riding the Lion on barrel flats: (PT so post 1900. Chambered in cm so between 1900 and 1912): My feeling is Ronchard-Cizeron was long gone by 1930 so the Lion/Monkey should not be his mark?

-- (Looks like it reads "Canons Gallia" "Marque Deposee")



-- According to this post, Canons Gallia was a marque of Berthon Fr�res: "Berthon Fr�res, fabricants d'armes a St Etienne de 1900 � 1910. Successeurs de la Maison Martin Gerest. D�p�t de deux marques de fabrique le 26 avril 1912 pour platine "Perfecta"et une autre. Deux autres d�p�ts le 11 juin 1912 pour canons "Gallia" et carabine "La Lorraine". Devient en 1922 Laspoussas-Berthon & Cie, puis Laspoussas & Driol en 1923. L'entreprise a exist� jusqu'en 1950."

The problem with this scenario is the 6.5 chamber above. Chambering in cm went out in 1912, thus a trademark established in Jun 1912 would be just on the cusp of the changeover - unless it was used informally before.

Here was the comment at the time:
"Fanget & Cie had a trademark of a Dragon on a Broom."

Also:
"It would seem that R*C( Joseph Ronchard - Cizeron) used more than one trademark type animal. I thumbed thru a number of examples and the Rampant Rabbit goes hand in hand with Choke Bored Perfectionn�(something like advanced constriction??) while the Lion is also seen on R*C(Joseph Ronchard - Cizeron) examples in tandem with the Rampant Rabbit."

Rampant Bunny logo of Ronchard-Cizeron:

Many thanks Argo44(the stage name makes me want to watch the movie Argo) for the effort & what a case of happenstance. But I think the phrase to be "Marque D�pos�e". I fancy the phrase money riding the lion.....

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Well, actually, my wife and I were returning from Paris in June 1981 to Brazzaville. the Air Afrique flight at the time flew, Paris-Ndjamena-Bangui-Brazza" and return. The DC8 landed in Ndjamena; the plane taxied to the dusty terminal, made a 180 degree turn and ran for the runway. Two Libyan armored cars shot past on either side and cut it off. Libyans had occupied the Chadian capital at the time - Chadian civil war was going full force. They took off someone from 1st class. Never knew what it was about but wrote it up once we got to Brazza. Shades of the movie.

Looks like that Monkey on a Lion's Back, or Rampant Dragon with wings or something is the mark of Canons Gallia. Question is, "whose mark is 'Canons Gallia'?" It could indeed be Gerest-Berthon and its successors:



Gene Williams

Verney-Carrone is French, so Belgian proofmarks are not relevant, but I believe on Belgian guns the rampant lion in full indicates proof for domestic sale and in stick figure form represents for export...Geo

A few I have @ my fingertips. I'll try to round up a few more.

Berthon Freres


Seems as if we have the same image.....





Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Marecnal

Odd duck I had lying around.....


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Ah, so it's a prancing/rearing pony. Ca va. And a few more extraneous engraved keys - everybody did it. Sort of like everybody is now wearing $300 pairs of tennis shoes in Paris now.

Ca va, huh? Me thinks it still to be a lion rampant? But Prancing Pony is quite searchable.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

With all those Helice guns, looks like V-C specialized in the engraved keys. My 1922 catalog is a reproduction with somewhat fuzzy images. But even in many of those you can make out engraving on the key and top lever.

That catalog is worth the price if for nothing more than the full page photo of French WWI ace of aces Rene Fonck and his recommendation for the V-C Helice Grip: "The game birds fall like Krauts!"