doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers

Russ, Reilly's made their own guns as detailed extensively above (p.18). They did not serial number guns they did not build. They would engrave and market guns sold under license but these were not numbered. No doubt they imported barrel stocks and possibly actions from Birmingham - but the guns were finished, engraved, stocked in-house in London. Reilly also may have made guns for other makers...this was an assertion made by one author and Reilly ads do say "Retail and Wholesale." I've always assumed the "wholesale" part was sale of military rifles to the yeomanry militia, however.

1886 - reference to Kings of Portugal, Spain and Netherlands


1875 or thereabouts - notice the reference to the King of Portugal


1860 advertisement "A genealogy and Heraldry Dictionary of the British Empire" - Burke.

Thanks Gene. Good to know. Russ

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1881, November: 23536 - Photos
Pics of Russ's 23536, 1st extant gun with the renumbered Oxford Street Addresses:

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30363 - 30364 - (1889) - Anson & Deely Patent use 6250


I've records of a number of Reilly's using the A&D patent...this is the only one with an A&D number matched to a Reilly SN other than Russ's. So from Russ's 23536 - AD 3814 to this 30383 - AD 6250: Reilly made 6,850 odd guns. If the AD patent use numbers were maker specific... 2,420 odd of those Reillys would have used AD actions (about 40%).

https://www.theexplora.com/who-made-this...nd-ian-jackson/
The example we present here (SN 30363) is Number 1 of a pair. It is stamped on the action flats with Deeley�s Patent Ejector use number 428 and Anson and Deeley�s Patent use number 6250 for the box lock action.



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There is a gun in Norway listed in the original SN list on P.3: Note that the A&D patents for this gun and the one above are only 13 numbers apart. I'm trying to contact the poster to ask for the SN. This gun and the one above also both have the Deeley ejector patent, this one is one number ahead of the above guns. https://www.indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15506

Name: E.M REILLY & Co, 277 Oxford Street, London.
Description: Boxlock by EM Reilly. Built on a Westley Richards action with the WR patented top lever and dolls head. Lovely Damascus tubes. Nice wood. Scroll engraved. Ejector. Intercepting sears. Original black powder proof. Number 2 of a pair. Action flats marked �Deeley ejector patent 427� (1880?) and �Anson & Deeley patent 6265 (about 1889?). Now I'm wondering if this Norway gun is the number 2 of the 1st gun above....the Deely ejector patent use numbers are one digit apart.





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Also, The above is very similar to this gun (no SN supplied but probably around 303xx)
http://www.hillrodandgun.com/archivepicture.php?id=12774
EM REILLY, LONDON, BLE, 2 3/4" sleeved, 28" choked Cyl/Mod. 14 5/8" moderately figured wood to black recoil pad. This Reilly is built on a Westley Richards action and is gun #2 of a pair. The action has gone grey, has London best fine sroll engraving, beaded fences and intercepting sears. 6lbs 14oz.

Extant gun date chart moved to p.33

Footnotes to Extant Gun Chronology moved to p.33

Gene,

The 2 WR actioned guns are interesting. I don't know if WR kept records on the patent use numbers. Unfortunately, the patent use numbers aren't shown on the #1 or #2 guns. It would be interesting to know if WR built and sold the guns to Reilly or just furnished the actions for Reilly to complete the guns.

Ken

Hey Ken, whether Reilly made his own guns has been an often asked question. This line addresses this, particularly on p.18, where there are a series of posted advertisements. The unmistakable conclusion is that Reilly indeed made his own guns in his two large buildings in London. He employed barrel borers, engravers, stockers, finishers; 300 persons per the 1880 census. He may have imported actions in the white from Birmingham but he did not serial number any gun he did not make. I can give a dozen examples (most posted above) but this advertisement from 1861 pretty well sums up the whole lot.

He could not offer gentlemen into his factories in London at 502 (16) New Oxford Street or 315 (277) Oxford Street to "superintend the progress of their orders" if he weren't making the guns there.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .April 14, 1861, "Bell's Life


Reilly did sell other's guns, Trantor, Adams, Colt, Remington, Sharps, etc, and he engraved them and put his names on them....but not a Serial Number.

I am going to be adding patents and use numbers to the above list as they are found.

Ken, you asked if Reilly sold complete Westley-Richards. Here are a couple of advertisements which indicate he did:

. . . 1871 Black's Cornwall Guide. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Portion of) 1882 Bradshaw Guide to GB and Ireland.


The 1871 ad must be mid 1871 just before or right after the gun was officially adopted because Reilly is advertising "Henry-Martini". The Martini-Henry was adopted officially in Summer 1871 and the first Reilly newspaper ad for "Martini-Henry"'s for sale I've found is November 1871...I've dated SN 17314, the only serial number Reilly Martini I've found, at Jan 1872.

You'll notice both ads mention several different type of guns he was selling. Now it can get tricky. For instance, he numbered a few Sniders...but if he did not build the gun, he didn't number it. I've only found one serial numbered Martini-Henry SN 17314 (very early) because the Enfield factory insisted on sending over all the parts for assembly when one was ordered (and there are a lot of Reilly Martini's in various calibers around) Etc. Thus I think he did both with Westley Richards - he sold complete guns (not serial numbered); and he sold his own guns based on the WR action (serial numbered).

As for the three SN 303xx Reilly guns with WR actions above, I feel confident in saying he built these - there is an unmistakable balance and look to them.

After an educational exchange with knowledgeable contributors to this board such as LeFusil, I understand that while there is prima facie evidence that Reilly made guns at both his Oxford Street addresses from 1847 to 1912, there would be interest in running this down further. Here is what I'm working on:

1) What happened to Reilly's gun making machines, lathes, barrel borers, engraving tools, etc. A lot of the guns at the time are hand made but he needed the big machines too, if he were building complete actions from scrap rather than buying them under patent, especially since he was stamping "Reilly" onto specific parts of actions.

...a. I'll start looking to see what was sold when Reilly declared bankruptcy on 06 Jun 1912. The liquidator G. Watkinson Roberts might have published a list of items somewhere.



However, there are two factors which might effect the bankruptcy sale:

-- Reilly closed 16 New Oxford Street in 1898 and I speculated at that time sold the workshop there...part of downsizing due to dramatically decreasing orders. When they moved they must have sold the equipment there. I do not know who was running the company at the time. Will search the London papers for sales of gun making items from that year.

-- They moved from 277 (location of the shooting gallery) to 295 in 1903. Bert Reilly, now 26 years old, was the manager. They also must have had to sell equipment for the move. 295 was considerably smaller; they only serial numbered about another 250 guns in the 9 years after they closed 277 before bankruptcy. So again machines at 277 must have been sold off.
. . . .-- I'll see if I can dig up some sales data from that building as well. I do know from labels in cases, etc., that they did do maintenance work on older Reilly's while at 295....one gun re-barreled - other serial numbered guns from the 1880's-90's came up with crossed out 277 addresses on the cases.

In addition, I'm trying to determine who worked for Reilly I have the names of two shop managers, one from 1861 and one from 1895. I'll be looking at British census data to see if anyone in that area of London actually identified themselves as a Reilly employee (at the time you were only obligated to give "occupation.")

1861 - John Baker who took out a patent for Reilly: - there are a lot of John Bakers in London including one gun maker wh 20 years later was up in Birmingham.


1895 - James Curtis, who testified at a trial involving an Irish terrorist who may have bought a revolver from Reilly.
13 Sep 1895 "Kilburn Times"


There are some others but only identified by last name. Research continues.