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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,812
Sidelock
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The devil is in the details of situation as well as in the much-lauded but danger-fraught application of the moral imperative. Despite my favorite local dealer taking 20% on consigment sales, I would not hesitate to critique condition of a consigned gun (in that store) (if invited to do so by either another customer or salesman) (which frequently happens) but I would pass by on the other side when store-owned. The hangtag and some experience tells me what to do when. Also I wouldn't be running about telling everyone who will listen that a grade I Super manufactured in the salt years is suspect for "over-seasoning". If it ain't got the wood, it ain't got the rot. A grade I of any era that's mouldering away has been salt-water hunted and put away wet.

jack



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Sidelock
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OK. I can't stand it and have to say something. First, if the gun was sold a couple of years ago, that was a fair price. You know the dealer and I don't but many longtime dealers have little knowledge of certain segments of the market much as certain gunsmiths have no experience with certain guns. Keep in mind that if ethics ia a system of morals, then it should extend to all indviduals. That would mean that if we walked into a shop and and found an "O" frame VHE 16ga. in 80% condition for $600. it would be incumbent on us to inform the dealer that the 16ga. is no longer undesirable, SxS"s now have a following and that if he would raise the price by three or four hundred percent we would then buy the gun. Not.
Considering the buyers haste in purchasing, it is reasonable to assume that he felt he was taking advantage of the situation. You did precisely the correct thing by not intervening.

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Jimmy W Offline OP
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A .410 Browning Superposed about five years ago should have sold in the $3000.00+ range, QTRHRS. That is why I suspected a salt gun right off the bat at that price. I know this because about that time I bought a Grade 1 20 gauge Super for $2000.00 and felt that was a good price for a 99% 20 gauge. Now they are going in the $3000.00 range.

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Sidelock
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Jimmy, was the stock highly figured or strait grain?

jack

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Jimmy W Offline OP
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It wasn't really highly figured but it had a nice piece of wood on it. Closer to straight grain.

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Ned Schwing, The Browning Superposed , pp.246-7: "As a general rule, higher grade Superposed guns are more likely to have salt cured stocks than Grade I guns. This is due to the scarcity of highly figured French and American black walnut, making the need for high grade wood greater."

However, to give the blanket phobia its due, Schwing also states that the problem ". . . affected at least ninety percent of all stocks for all Browning firearms [including amazingly Hi-power hand grips] for the years 1967 through 1969." His sources Harm Williams and Val Browning who might be expected to know if anyone would.

jack

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Boxlock
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The article on the Salt Gun has solved a 40 year old mystery. My father bought a pair of Winchester Buffalo Bill commenoratives after a western trip in the mid 60s. Both sat in their boxes in the closet for 30 years or so until I got them.

When examined, the rifle was immaculate but the carbine was ruined. The butt stock was discolored in the tang area and both tangs were seriously rusted. Functional but now ugly.

Left a bad taste about Winchesters which I suspect was well deserved.

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1968 Salty[?] Super. What a mess!

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I've got to get out of New York State...the ethics where you guys live is light years better than here...

Many years ago, Stephan Cobb pointed out (to me)a couple of well known doublegun collectors/horse traders who think nothing of bluing damascus guns and selling them at gun shows. Especially Bakers, Lefevers, and early Ithacas.


At the same Syracuse gun show, a dealer paniced because suddenly a 20ga Superposed was missing...someone radioed security at the door and they watched as he carried the gun out the door before stopping him. When confronted the man replied, in front of the owner, that he was a Buffalo police officer, and that he doesn't buy $2000 guns without taking them outside in the light to inspect for cracks. The dealer got the gun back and the ..... was excused.

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I don't think that's peculiar to any one state, it's anywhere you want to go. There's sleaze and decency mixed across the board.

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