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Argo44 Offline OP
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Following will begin to lay out circumstantial evidence that Reilly made guns. I've accumulated hundreds of documents. But for starters, here is the year 1864 and the Reilly manufacture of Green Brothers breech loaders. this was mentioned in a post on page 12 above - no one seems to have read it so this is a repeat going into more detail (there's more but this should suffice to make a point).

===========================================================================================
1864 - Reilly manufactures the Green Bros Breech-loader


Reilly had been heavily involved in promoting breech loaders since 1851 London Crystal Palace World's Fair. In 1855 after the 1855 Paris Universelle, his labels changed to advertise both "Fusils a Bascule" (French for center-break guns) on the Lefaucheaux principal) and "Improved breech loaders."

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

There was more to this than just saying, "ok, now we're going to make breech loaders." Here part of the obituary of William Blanch, who was connected to JC and EM Reilly for many years, which explains who were the pioneers in UK for center break guns, and what were the problems they faced.

"But he had the more arduous task of teaching this men how to make the new gun. The barrel maker had to be instructed how to make the lump instead of the screw breech-plug. The percussionier had to be broken in to the task of making actions on Lefaucheaux's system. Everything was new..."

(By the way, the Blanch records were lost to a Zepplin bomb raid).

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Reilly was among the group of English gun makers who urged Ordinance to reopen the trials for the Prince breech-loader in 1858-59 and was one of several manufacturers who were authorized to produce the Prince breech loader (two Prince breech loaders manufactured and serial numbered by Reilly exist - see chart).

In Feb 1862 the Green Brothers, who had been in partnership with Prince - partnership dissolved in 1859 - took out a patent for a new breech loader. EM Reilly, who had a relationship with the Green Brothers obtained manufacturing rights to the Green Brothers breech loader. Ordinance was inching towards a trial for a replacement for the .577 Enfield rifle-musket muzzle-loader as arguments raged about the pros and cons of breech-loaders vs. muzzle-loaders in the London Press.. The Prussian invasion of Denmark on 1 Feb 1864 and the astonishing initial success of the Prussian Dreyse needle gun, forced Ordinance's hand with pressure also being applied by the English press and UK gun makers.

Reilly began manufacturing Green Brothers breech loaders in Jan-March 1864. Here is one of the very first....use #23, manufactured by Reilly and serial numbered 13333, on the gun is E.M Reilly & Co., 502 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON.

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Here are a few of the articles in the English press about the Green Bros invention and Reilly's manufacture of the gun which began in early 1864:

1). Volunteer Services Gazette, of 12 March 1864:

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

2). 04 April 1864, London Daily News:

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

3). 28 Jul 1864, Morning Post - a report on the beginning of breech loading trials...and first mention of the Snider, which wound up beating out the Green Bros and Reilly for the contract as UK's interim breech loader:

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

4). Here are a couple of the hundreds of Reilly ads run during 1864...he was not shy in promoting this gun...millions of pounds in government contracts were at stake. And you see again the consistent promotion of his testing facility at 315 Oxford Street.

London Daily News, 24 April 1864
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
London Daily News, 26 Nov 1864

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Last edited by Argo44; 09/07/21 04:08 PM.

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===========================================================================================
1864 - Reilly manufactures the Green Bros Breech-loader (continued)


Reilly continued for several years as "Sole Manufacturer" of Green Bros Breech loaders:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1865 Bradshasw. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Jul 1866 - Proceedings of the Royal Court


Well...what happened? Jacob Snider (an American) won the competition (and died a pauper-never receiving a nickel - uhhh shilling - from the Ordinance); The famous Snider-Enfield was formally adopted in 1866 even as bids were solicited for a new breech-loader with a small caliber, faster muzzle-velocity gun). Reilly continued to make Green Brothers breech loaders...there is one use number 159, SN 13884 (mid 1865) but after the adoption of the Snider, I can't find any more guns which are serial numbered. Here is one made about 1870, Patent use number 3116...Reilly on the rib - but no mention of SN.


I speculate that he must have shifted manufacture of the Green Brothers breech loaders to Birmingham after loss of the contract. Why? From 1864 to 1870 I calculate in the above chart that he Serial Numbered a little more than 3,000 guns. The above use numbers for Green Bros patent (23 in 1864 and 156 in 1865 to 3116 in about 1870) indicate that in this time period he manufactured over 3,000 Green Brothers breech loaders. It is impossible that he serial numbered more than a few of these in the first couple of years of production.

Likewise, the Reilly Comblain breech loader also went to Birmingham I assume - I haven't found a single Comblain-Reilly with a Reilly SN. This is discussed on p.12 as well but I'll make a separate post to drive home the point.

One could argue that the London press and gun manufacturing experts who received the Green Bros Breech loader from Reilly for testing had the wool pulled over their eyes. Or this noted professor might have just been fudging in his lecture as he discussed Green Brothers (Reilly & Co.) breech loader. Somehow....that doesn't seem plausible.

. . . . . . . . . . 25 July 1866, Morning Advertiser


Please read the whole line before commenting off the cuff...I'll be posting more on the subject.

Last edited by Argo44; 01/09/20 09:31 PM.

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===========================================================================================
1868 Reilly Comblain, Reilly sole manufacturers in UK:



Again this was covered on P.12. However, in view of questions about Reilly's manufacturing ability, acumen and practice, this will be posted again to drive the point home - Reilly was not your ordinary "retailer":

The 1866 Snider Enfield was regarded by the British Army only as a stop-gap until a fully dedicated breech loader could be developed and adopted. In 1867 Ordinance put out the call for a breech loader design - Ordinance had found the .577 bullet went sub-sonic at about 400 meters and was interested in a smaller caliber round with a faster muzzle velocity (see the post on the Martini Henry on p.12):

In 1867 the Belgian firm Comblain took out a patent on a breech loader. The patent presented as "Reilly-Comblain," was described in “The Engineer” of May 15, 1868 on page 347. https://books.google.com/books?id=2E5HAQ...fle&f=false



Reilly went into partnership with Comblain to try to market it to the Ordinance. The bid didn’t progress very far. Apparently the Army felt it was too similar to the Snider. The Comblain breech loader was adopted by Belgium and for 30 years by the Brazilian army. However, Reilly became the “sole manufacturers” of Comblain’s in Britain and his name is on at least seven of them that are extant.

. . . . . . . . . . 1969 Bradshaw . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1968 Black's Guide
Note Paris medals, appearance of the new branch at rue Scribe, Paris, addition in 1969 of "suppliers to the Emperor" to the advertisements:


Most Reilly-Comblains have only the London address-it was a British army trials after all and having a Frenchy address would not have been a plus; however one trials gun has “Paris” stamped on the butt plate. Some of the below guns were proofed in Belgium; none of them have a Reilly Serial Number on them; I don't know how many were manufactured in UK. Thus, I've concluded they were not made by The Reilly workshops in London. Some of the examples below have “E.M.Reilly & Co., Sole Manufacturers, New Oxford St London just ahead of the breech; The patent use numbers range from 25 to 5298 - and that's a lot of guns being marketed and sold by Reilly.

Patent use #25. .577 Snider, 20 1/2" barrel. The top of the action is engraved "H. HOLLAND / 98 NEW BOND ST. / LONDON", the lockplate is engraved simply "H. HOLLAND" and the breechblock is marked "REILLY-COMBLAIN / PATENT NO. / 125". A brass plaque affixed to the bottom of the stock beneath action is beautifully engraved "Reilly / Comblain / Patent / No. 25”. (I cannot explain how H&H made this gun - perhaps it was before Reilly became "sole manufacturer).





Patent use #32. .577 Reilly-Comblain rifle, serial no. 32. Blued 30in barrel, block and blade fore-sight, ladder rear-sight, the nocksform signed 'E.M. REILLY & Co. RIFLE MANUFACTURERS, NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON', lift up lever with horizontal bolt handle mounted to the right hand side lifting and drawing out the breech-block, the block signed 'REILLY-COMBLAIN PATENT No. 32', plain colour-hardened lock signed 'E.M. REILLY & Co. LONDON’.



Patent use #???. This rifle is stamped on the barrel ahead of the breach E.M.Reilly & Co Sole Manufacturers New Oxford St., London on the lock plate E.M.Reilly & Co. London. Caliber is .577.



Patent use #5048: Reilly Comblain rifle; 30”, barrel with Birmingham proofs "25", sabre bayonet lug and typical period Enfield sights; 5-groove rifling like the 1860 or '61 Short Rifles. Chambered for the .577 Snider round. Receiver ring stamped "E.M.REILLY & Co / SOLE MANUFACTURERS / NEW OXFORD STREET / LONDON" . Breechblock stamped "REILLY-COMBLAIN / PATENT No 5048". Butt is marked with a large 3" ink stamp "PATENTED BY E.M. REILLY & Co., LONDON & PARIS".



Patent Use #5298. Fusil d'infanterie à percussion centrale, modèle E. M. Reilly ; calibre 14,8 mm ; canon poli blanc, poinçonné et signé : "E. M. Reilly & C° Sole Manufacturers new Oxford Street London" ; culasse marquée : "Reilly Comblain patent n° 5298" ; platine avant polie blanc, marquée : "E M Reilly & C° London”. (Poli Blanc = carbon steel).


Last edited by Argo44; 02/05/19 02:49 PM.

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I've been asked some questions about the above; to clarify, here are the points I'm trying to make with these posts:
1) Reilly had an intimate knowledge of the gun making business and extensive contacts in Europe, London and Birmingham.
2) He was not confined to trying to "eek out" an existence by selling bespoke guns. He had numerous and extensive lines of revenue coming into the company; in other words he was not just a gun retailer and repairer; He was an entrepreneur and a force in the gun making world at the time running a large company.
3) He put his name on a lot of guns sold under license, made for him under license, sold as retail, sold as wholesale. He did not claim he made these guns. Reilly's name and engravingcan be found on the following guns he retailed, which have no Reilly SN:
Adams . . . . . . . . . Winchester . . . . . . Lee Speed
Trantor . . . . . . . . . Sharps . . . . . . . . . Snider Enfield
Colt . . . . . . . . . . . Martini-Henry. . . . Westley Richards
Walker Bulldog . . . . Enfield . . . . . .
And various muzzle and breech loaders with no make name other than Reilly and no SN, proofed in Birmingham plus all the rook-rifles he sold.

4) But - the important surmise: He only serial numbered guns he made in his workshops in London: (and this included some Enfields, Green Bros Breech loaders, Snider Infields, and one Martini Henry)
5) These guns will have London proofs.

To try to explain the Reilly numbering system otherwise does not make sense. I've addressed this several times in this line and put it in the "New Short History," but it doesn't hurt to restate the hypothesis, where we are, and what the objective of continued research is.

The history of the company has been reestablished; the serial number chronology seems pretty solid at the moment, pending appearance of additional guns; the item still being nailed down is the in-house manufacturing of Reilly Serial Numbered guns - what was made, what was bought, what was farmed-out and who were the shop foremen and workers.

And, I'd like to restate - when you look at Reilly guns as a whole - and there are a lot posted above and still active links to dozens more, there seems to be a unity to them in looks, balance, artistic design, engraving, lines - which made me conclude that he designed the guns and put them together in London - whether he bought actions or barrel blanks in the white or not,.

Last edited by Argo44; 02/09/19 11:19 AM.

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=============================================================================
Reilly's Ranges


Questions have been asked about Reilly's ranges and testing facilities. These are addressed above but more needs to be said:

1). Reilly had a 50 yard indoor range at 315 (277) Oxford street. This was advertised regularly over the space of 40 years from the time Reilly first occupied the building in January 1859. Here is an example but there are dozens:

. . . . . . . . 1862 London International Exposition Catalog


2). However, Reilly also had a 300 yard range somewhere close to his buildings on Oxford Street. This was first mentioned in 1851:

. . . . . . . . . . .1851 London Crystal Palace Exposition Advertisement


The 300 yard range continued to be advertised up to at least the mid-1880's:

. . . . . . . . . . . . .1882 "Modern Sportsman" - but other ads continued until 1886. (Note mention of the "Hurlingham weight" - Hurlingham, the principle pigeon shooting club, limited pigeon guns to 7lbs 8oz beginning 1883)


I wondered where might this range be and speculated it might have been in Bedfordshire at J.C.'s old country estate. But that seemed some distance to travel to test fire a gun. Then I found this advertisement:

. . . . . . . . . . .02 October 1875, "Illustrated Sporting News"


Wood-Lane, Shepards Bush was open country for years:

. . . . . . . . . .1841


It began to be built up when the Wood Lane station was opened in 1863. I can't find where Reilly owned land there but it's entirely possible. And there is a history of rifle ranges being in the area - check out this one:

"A gunmaker of Bond Street owned a shooting range provided with an iron stag which ran backwards and forwards on rails. Purchasers would test their guns on this stag..".

Since this was written at a later date, I wonder if the "Bond Street gunmaker" was really Reilly - and whether they got the date it was abandoned wrong.



In 1879 the military took over Wormwood Scrubs just off Wood Lane just north of Shepards Bush. They had ranges there but were forbidden to build structures other than the range bunkers. Sometime in the 1890's the maneuver area was guaranteed to remain open to the citizens of the neighborhood.




I'll be adding to this .....looking at property records, etc. but if any Londoners know something about the area local knowledge would be appreciated.

Print of Shooting at Shepard's Bush, 1867 - obviously not a rifle range:


The buildings at Wormwood Scrubs is now a pub called "The Pavillion."

Pavilion Parade, Wood Lane
Shepherds Bush
LONDON
W12 0HQ

The pub was built in 1861 as the Rifle Pavilion, named after the surrounding rifle ranges where volunteer units trained to counter a threatened French invasion.



Here is one of the Regiments raised in the area - Reilly sold guns to them:

[img]http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/56233_600x400.jpg[/img]

The Artists Rifles is a special forces regiment of the British Army Reserve. Raised in London in 1859 as a volunteer light infantry unit, the regiment saw active service during the Second Boer War and the First World War, earning a number of battle honours. It did not serve outside Britain during the Second World War, as it was used as an officer training unit at that time. The regiment was disbanded in 1945, but in 1947 it was re-established to resurrect the Special Air Service Regiment. Today, the full title of the Regiment is 21 Special Air Service Regiment (Artists) (Reserve) (21 SAS(R)) and with 23 Special Air Service Regiment (Reserve) (23 SAS(R)), it forms the Special Air Service (Reserve) (SAS(R)).

Last edited by Argo44; 02/14/19 11:07 PM.

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Might as well put this out too: If Reilly did not build guns, then here's another fellow in 1875 who sure was fooled:

. . . . . .27 November 1875, "Illustrated Sport and Drama News"

Last edited by Argo44; 02/10/19 11:06 AM.

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You know I've owned some really nice condition "Best" English hammer guns...Scott Premier grade a Purdey and a Blisset and I never let one possess my very existence like this Reilly has done to you...

Have you ever shot or hunted with your Reilly ?





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Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
You know I've owned some really nice condition "Best" English hammer guns...Scott Premier grade a Purdey and a Blisset and I never let one possess my very existence like this Reilly has done to you...

Have you ever shot or hunted with your Reilly ?






jOe, not sure if you realize this but it is only through the dogged pursuit of history that we get any clarity of the past. Not all of us are bitten by that bug, I am sure not, but those who are leave a legacy of knowledge.

For example, 25-30 years ago, no one knew who H.A Lindner was. All of us in the double gun world are richer for the effort a small group made to uncover the truth about who had made those Daly guns. The guys who wrote the book on Parker are sometimes credited with the entire resurgence of SxS in North America.

Argo does this for his own reasons and while I don't care much about Reilly's, I'm glad he has those reasons.


The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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It was all made possible by the internet.

Just curious as to why his obsession with one maker.

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If Argo44 doesn't sort it out, who will? Hat's off to him as we still have the aforementioned Lindner - Daly(Canvas-Back) as well as 3 Ringe & 4 Ringe Spezial Stahl, etc. to sort. Pieces of the puzzle that exist today will be swept under the rug tomorrow possibly to never be found again. Maybe everyone should pick their favourite maker instead of incite to riot, etc.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

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