doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Baker Black Beauty Krupp Custom

And silver triggers, just like on his Purdey. No doubt made-to-order for the Lone Ranger in 1904-- right!!

Simply a masterpiece. And clearly well researched.

*golf clap*

Makes me almost miss RGD/Dave (aka "RymanGunDog", aka "Beans"). This kind of description is right up his alley, but he would have further interjected a personalized story just to tie it all together.

"Well, you see, it was a gift from W.H. Baker's grandson to my grandfather, as a thank you, for advise he had given him about..."

The Pachmayr pad is a particularly nice "original" touch, as are the "mint unfired barrels" which have clearly been refinished, per the hole in the bottom rib.

To think they were co-produced by both LLH and Krupp! Rare, indeed!

- NDG

This gun reminds me of a guy who used to come into the gas station I worked at in high school.

His license plate said "MY VETTE"

His car was a mustard yellow 4-door Chevette, with a brown hood and missing hubcaps.

I mean...it WAS a "vette."

- NDG

Only to clarify, this is a 00 Smith with "Fluid Steel-Krupp Essen" with Armor Steel overstamp.



Krupp barrels were cataloged by Hunter Arms as an available option 1900-1905, but it is likely the tubes were manufactured by license to Laurent Lochet-Habran & Acier Cockerill Liege.

Doc Drew,

I forget the timeline, but I know I have a book somewhere on my shelf outlining how some some time after the turn of the century Krupp licensed their "recipe" out to Sanderson Brothers and possibly Crucible. Of course, after the outbreak of WW1, nobody probably felt obligated to honor any agreement with a German outfit.

EDIT: See below. I found the reference, and it was for Bethlehem Steel, and it is only a supposition of license, not diffinitive.

- NDG

Doc Drew,

I would add...that given the time line, I think it's a good guess that the Armor Steel Smith's were in fact just a variant of Krupp. Perhaps it's a good guess that even those Armor Steel barrels which have no Krupp stamp, in likelihood ARE "Krupp recipe."

I found the book reference I mentioned in a prior post. It is in a thick Harvard text book entitled, "The History of Foreign Investment in the United States to 1914," by Mira Wilkins.

In a chapter discussing German and French FDI just before the turn of the century, she writes, with a dated source notation:

"In 1893 Friedrich Alfred Krupp visited Pittsburgh en route to the Chicago World's Fair, where there was a Krupp exhibit. In 1900 the Krupp company (of Essen, Germany) had an American representative, Captain A.E. Piorkowski. 'Kruppized' armor plate was made by Bethlehem Steel, possibly under license."

So clearly, on the supposition that Bethlehem had a license, and therefore the recipe, it would be no stretch to guess that after the outbreak of WW1, they'd have simply stopped paying Krupp anything and considered such knowledge war time booty. This could be how any number of fluid steel guns actually have 'Krupp quality' barrels which are unattributed as such.

Again, just supposing.

- NDG

Thanks Bro. Nudge
Carnegie and Bethlehem Steel were licensed to manufacture Krupp steel plate in 1897; New York Times Nov. 7th, 1897
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9A00E5DA123CE433A25754C0A9679D94669ED7CF

If either produced Krupp marked shotgun barrels for U.S. makers (Ithaca, Fox, Baker, Meriden Fire Arms, Torkelson, Tobin) is unknown.
Krupp marked tubes also stamped �Acier Cockerill� or with �LLH� of Laurent Lochet-Habran are commonly found.

I've not seen anything about Sanderson Brothers or Crucible having a license for Krupp, and we know that BARREL tube steel used by U.S. makers was sourced almost entirely pre-WWI from Belgium, and after a brief break, that continued after WWI.

As to Krupp's recipe; it depends on which steel
American Rifleman, April 8, 1915, Fred Adolph, �More About Gun Barrel Steel�
https://books.google.com/books?id=EpcwAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA25&lpg
�Krupp makes 200 kinds of steels�

One analysis of Krupp Fluss Stahl showed it to be AISI 1045.
The single specimen of 1898 Hunter Arms �Armor Steel� I analyzed was 1045 Carbon Steel with high Phosphorus and Sulfur = AISI 1211 Rephosphorized Resulfurized Low Alloy Steel.

Old thread but lots of Krupp infro, mostly courtesy of Bro. Raimey
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...amp;type=thread

I was just deleting a bunch of old PM's to make room in my PM box, and saw where I had PM'd Daryl about a Baker Harrison Special I had bought. I completely forgot about that gun. Now I'm all excited that it might have been custom built exactly like a Purdey for President Benjamin Harrison, or maybe even ex-Beatle guitarist George Harrison.

This could rock the gun collecting world!

So I found myself looking up some Baker info this morning and came back to this thread. This listing is still active!

Dave should make this one "sticky," as it truly is one of the all-time greats.

I dare say...even RGD/Dave, that scion of LC Smith sci-fi writing, may not have conjured the Purdey association. And a factory original Pachmayr pad that was produced AFTER the gun made? That's time machine stuff! Both the gun, and letter, belong in the Smithsonion.

This makes me smile every time I read it. The typos in the listing only add to the comedy. I'm going to save an image of this letter so it can never be forgotten. W.C Fields would be proud.

There really should be a Hall of Fame area on this forum. "Hall of Infamy?"

Nudge

Further on Pachmayr...

According to Lyman's website (they own the Pachmayr name now), Pachmayr introduced their first recoil pads in 1949. But they make no mention of model.

Does anyone know when the first White Line and Decelerator types were offered? I would have guessed the 60's, but maybe the White line was their original going back to '49...?

Just interested to know.

Nudge