March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,244 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,374
Posts544,014
Members14,391
Most Online1,131
Jan 21st, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372
Likes: 103
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372
Likes: 103
Originally Posted By: Replacement
Quote:
the states can do pretty much whatever they decide to do--which can be pretty darned restrictive if you happen to live in California. So focus on fighting your battles at the state level. And demand "good science" from those who would push to further restrict lead ammunition.


We tried good science in CA and we got crap back from our legislators such as, "hunters are poisoning the homeless population by donating wild game to homeless shelters because the game meat is contaminated with lead." You can't make this stuff up.


Like everything in politics, it's a numbers game. Hunters in CA . . . you don't have the numbers. You can play the squeaky wheel, but you're more like off a baby carriage than a big old hunter's 4 WD truck.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372
Likes: 103
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372
Likes: 103
Originally Posted By: A R McDaniel Jr
Again, I try to only speak from experience. I've never hunted public land or on a WMA, so I don't know about them. Some years ago I hunted doves on some properties that TPW had under their control. We used lead shot to hunt doves and squirrels. If we had gone back to hunt ducks we would have had to use steel shot on the same property.

Alan


The problem with lead shot and "experience" is that the rules are different from state to state. If you're somewhere you're unfamiliar with the rules, make sure you read and understand them. Telling the game warden it isn't that way where you're from won't work.

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 122
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 122
Oh, I'm pretty big on rule following. There's enough of Texas for me to hunt in. But, yes, I understand.

Alan

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,711
Likes: 730
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,711
Likes: 730
A bald eagle that ingests lead shot is in trouble, more so than just about any other bird species. The physiology of bald eagles breaks down lead/antimony alloy very efficiently, due to strong stomach acids. Shot that would pass through other creatures ends up in a bald eagle’s bloodstream.
That said, there will be most of a dozen of them, hanging with the crows, on any road killed deer or moose north of about highway 95 in Minnesota.

There is absolutely no shortage of them.


Best,
Ted

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,670
Likes: 372
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,670
Likes: 372
Ted,
It is not just strong stomach acids. In reality it is the crop gizzard where pebbles and bullets or pellets reside for long periods while they are ground away and then easily absorbed into the blood stream. A pellet or two will kill any bird but in a human or other mammal, it will pass through, largely undigested and thus fairly harmless as a rare event.


Last edited by BrentD; 04/17/19 08:14 PM.

_________
BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 122
Sidelock
Offline
Sidelock

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 122
Well, if they are that fragile and there are that many lead laden carcasses laying around , I'm surprised there's a one of them left.


Alan

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,444
Likes: 204
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,444
Likes: 204
Originally Posted By: BrentD
....It is not just strong stomach acids. In reality it is the crop gizzard where pebbles and bullets or pellets reside for long periods while they are ground away and then easily absorbed into the blood stream. A pellet or two will kill any bird....

Maybe, you could clarify some confusion that I have about this.

We're told that Eagles, which consume lead laced gut piles and lost lead shot game animals, succumb to lead poisoning quickly. Thus, the pictures of stacked dead Eagles, collected during the fall hunting season. How does that reconcile with the reality that one or two lead pellets require long periods in the gizzard of an Eagle to result in lethal blood levels of lead?

Apparently, lethal blood levels of lead have not been established in Eagles, or so says sources like Soar Raptors. Where can I learn about the absolute avian lethality of one or two lead pellets, from I would assume hunters and shooters? Is it settled science that only lead discharged from a firearm is toxic to birds, or was the one to two pellet example used for emphasis?

While not as commonly toxic to Eagles as lead, are birds susceptible to copper and zinc poisoning? I ask because copper and brass are likely components of lead free bullets. Do you think that while rare to less common, that scientific fact could result in calls for or actual banning of the use of current lead free hunting bullets?

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372
Likes: 103
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372
Likes: 103
It would appear, based on measuring lead levels in various species of birds, that some are more tolerant than others. Woodcock, for example--per a study by the University of Wisconsin--often show extremely high lead levels. Yet none of the birds studied had lead pellets in their digestive system. And the researchers could not determine the source of the lead. Given what woodcock eat (worms), it only seems logical that they would ingest lead because the soil in which the worms live contains lead, from a variety of sources.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1129
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,127
Likes: 1129
The gizzard in an eagle not only performs the task of primary digestion, by grinding up harder to digest food, but also forms pellets of indigestible substances. Within 24 hours of ingestion these pellets form and travel back to the mouth where they are vomited out and expelled. The usual substances contained in them are hair, feathers, and sometimes bone. Can someone explain to me why a lead fragment would not be included in the substances that an eagle cannot digest, and would not be expelled like all other indigestibles within 24 hours or so?

SRH


May God bless America and those who defend her.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,670
Likes: 372
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,670
Likes: 372
Stan, ever seen an eagle cough pellet?

Ever seen gravel, very very worn gravel in a gizzard?

What is a lead shot pellet more similar too, a feather or gravel?

You guys can read the biology literature as well as anyone else. Look it up, because nothing that anyone tells you here that you don't want to hear is going to change your preformed minds. There is a lot of data out there on all of these aspects - if you really want to know.


_________
BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


Page 4 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.065s Queries: 35 (0.039s) Memory: 0.8523 MB (Peak: 1.8987 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-29 06:24:24 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS