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The issue with using 2 3/4" hulls in a gun with 2 1/2" chambers isn't the wad. It's the pressure that the load in question produces. Unless you've got a gun which has not only short chambers but also short and sharply tapered forcing cones (mostly pre-1900 manufacture), the longer hull itself will only increase pressure by a few hundred psi when fired in a short chamber. The trick, therefore, is to work up loads that produce far lower pressures than those for which the gun was designed. That gives you enough safety margin to reload standard American 2 3/4" hulls and shoot them in vintage guns with short chambers.

In my earliest days of reloading, I loaded a good number of shells with card & filler wads. I personally do not recommend them for use in a gun having much of an overbore or a long forcing cone as there could be a problem with gas seal. This is normally not a problem with the plastic obturating wads.

Not a new idea, but there is a very easy and inexpensive way to reload for 2 1/2" chambers using 2 3/4" hulls, and cutting away part of the end of the crimped area of the hull. You load the same load as you would in the 2 3/4" hull, before cutting it down, being cognizant of the requisite pressures for the gun in question, but you add an undersized overshot card wad and crimp the remaining part of the hull down over the edge of the OS wad. This came to be known as the Hartin Crimp, because it was developed by a member here many years ago by that last name.

With hulls that have not been loaded lots of times, in which the plastic retains a good memory, the remaining part of the crimp holds the OS wad in place perfectly, and you end up with a shell that, when fired does not exceed the chamber length. Looks a little funky, but there seems to be enough remaining crimp to help the powder burn properly, and I've never had a problem with shot leakage. Easy, peasy.

I agree with the data Bell published about firing 2 3/4" shells in shorter chambers, but this is an alternative for someone who does not wish to do that, and also doesn't wish to modify a press for 2 1/2" shells.

A search here using "Hartin" will bring up much discussion and description, with commentary by the originator, Nitrah.

SRH

I use Ballistic Products "Advantage" reloading book for my 2 1/2" loads, they have a pretty good selection but a lot are for now discontinued powders such as PB, I stocked up when it was discontinued for my ITX and Bismuth loads. My "Advantage" manual is 10 years old so they might have updated it since then.

I do have a MEC 600 set up for 2 1/2" loads in 12 and 16ga and I fold crimp my 2 1/2" target loads and roll crimp my ITX and Bismuth loads.

2 1/2" 12ga target loads I shoot 11/16 oz of 9's on the skeet field over a dose of 700x and 7/8 oz 0f 8's for trap and SC. I was rummaging through my reloading gear and found the 11/16 oz MEC bar and though I'd try it even if it is kind of an odd load, it works well.

2 1/2" 16ga, I shoot 3/4 oz of everything for, lead for clays and ITX for water fowl. I do load a number of 1 oz NP BB's over Longshot for coyote hunting out of my drilling, it has proven to be quite effective.



Almost all of my loads except waterfowl and coyote loads are put up in cut down 2 3/4" Cheddite or Rio target hulls(range pickups)
Waterfowl and coyote loads go in new 2 1/2" hulls.

I just leave my loaders set up for 2 1/2" and shoot those same loads out of my 2 3/4" guns

Hi, here are the recipes I use for my short chamber 12 and 16 gauge guns. Both are too heavy for wookcock, but work very well on pheasants, prairie grouse and huns:

12ga:

2 3/4"Gold Medal Plastic Hull
CB 2118-12 Wad
Win 209 Primer
1 1/8 oz payload
23grns 800-X
1150fps
6500psi

16ga:

2 3/4" Cheddite Hull
SG16 Wad
Cheddite 209 Primer
1 1/8 oz payload
23grns Longshot
1180fps
7000psi

I do use an overshot card, just crimps better for me.

Never had a problem with these patterning well in my guns or any issues with powder migration, bloopers in cold weather or chewed up hull ends after firing.

Best of luck to you!

Greg

Regarding the 2 1/2 inch loads, I have shot polywad vintager 2 1/2 inch shells out of my 1892 Atkin 12. The barrels are new-- built in 1971, so I suppose I could probably get away with shooting 2 3/4 shells, but I'll likely err on the safe/traditional side and try to load 2 1/2s. The vintagers were outstanding as far as my shoulder and the pheasants could tell.

The other two guns I'll hunt with this year are both AyA: A 4/53 16 gauge 26 inch barrel gun that I'll use primarily for woodcock and quail; and a No 2 12g that I'll use when I don't want to take the Atkin in the field (may be rare).

I'm brand new to reloading, so I'll try to keep it simple for the most part. I've been thinking that one load for each gun to start would be a reasonable way to learn. I have been planning to modify my press for the 2 1/2s/.

I also have an ithica 200e that I may use for waterfowl, in which case I would want to have a non-toxic load as well, and I would load those in 2 3/4.

Thanks to all for the input.

Wad substitutions, to reduce stack height, does allow you to use 2. 3/4 data in 2 1/2 shells but with a little common sense. As the Crush zone in a wad is reduced a little increase in pressure may result. So I figure pressure goes up 500/1000 psi just to be safe. The only load I had tested when substituting a Red AA for a White AA showed less than 200psi increase but always be on the side of caution when loading.

Fiber wads do not seal well in oversized bores or long forcing cones. Vintage doubles often had very short forcing cones and what we think of as tight bores so they work well in thos situations. Unlike plastic wads they don�t flare out to create a seal. Then the shot does not get protected so barrels will get a bit of lead buildup which you will have to remove from time to time.

At some point in time during the overlap of fiber and plastic wads, Lyman made a plastic gas seal to be used in conjunction with the fiber wad. Gil

In those transition days, there were several makes of plastic gas seal wads designed to be used with the fiber filler wads. I do not remember them all but Remington had the H wad, Alcan made one as well As Herters. Alcan also offered a roll-up plastic sleeve to protect against bore scrubbing they called the Quick-cert. The one-piece plastic wad with shotcup displaced them all.

Miller, I misquoted myself. It was Alcan, not Lyman, that made gas seals for their wads...Gil