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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Yep, the Pieper produced guns are all junk. What ever you do, do not buy one! The second largest producer was at the heart of the cottage arms trade?

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Pete

PeteM #37015 04/23/07 07:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
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You are correct, did you notice that I didn't say 100%...whenever Pieper affixed their name, it would seem that you have something good...are you denying that Pieper made all those Belgian W. Richards, T Barkers, J Mantons, or EVERY other JABC that you have EVER seen? I didn't think so...Except for the ocassional S J & D, the firm of Etablishments Pieper is responsable for all JABC...Now I do like Pieper marked guns, but all those un-heat-treated POS's that Pieper FLOODED the American market with, have given Pieper a bad reputation that they will never out grow among double collectors. The same goes for SJ&D, even though Dumoulin and Jennsen ocassionaly made top grade doubles. I've not seen a Simonis marked double yet, but I would guess they're a quality made item. Besides, didn't SJ&D get the bulk of their recievers from Pieper. Unlike Masquelier, Saive, Bodson, Thirifays, Francotte, Theatre, ML, Scholberg, Deforney, and Breakers, even if you have a good Pieper, how many collectors are clamoring to buy them? Go to La Maisson and see how many Piepers they are selling (none). Notice how 3 out of 4 of what is listed, is Artisinal Liegeoise (ML). There are many exceptions to what I'm saying here, none of which absolves Pieper of the many thousands of un heat treated junkers that Pieper routinely turned out. In fact the thinking is so widespread, rarely will you find Pieper in any price value guides, most Piepers are so soft that most collectors don't even consider them real firearms. 400 rounds into the life of the gun, those Richards (by Pieper)are so loose, that you can keep the gun straight ahead, and if the rabbit flushes left, you need only wiggle the bbls to the left...95% of all Piepers are junk, and you know it.

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Yes, that's correct, Pieper and ML where the heart of the Liege cottage trade. Who else was mass producing SxS receives in Liege? Rarely did FN participate in the cottage trade. Do you have evidence of otherwise? If so, this is exactly the place to further everyones collective understanding of the Liege gun trade. In fact I would be suprized to find out that Pieper didn't make the receivers for a lot of the junkers that are often found with Birmingham proofs as well.

Last edited by Robert Chambers; 04/23/07 07:58 AM.
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