doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Junghans & Kriegeskorte 16ga x 8x57JR drilling

I've always wanted a 16ga, either an auto-5 or a SxS.

So I just won this thing. Probably paid a little too much... https://www.gunbroker.com/item/815691297 (edit: there, that's the right link!)



I guess I'll have to ream the shotgun chambers to 70mm, but that's no problem. I don't have the ream itself, but I have everything else I'd need to do that, and I figure I could probably sell the ream to the next guy for 80% and not be out of too much.

As for the rifle, what do you suppose is the cheapest way to load for it? The S&B 8.57JR is out of stock everywhere I've checked, so it looks like I'll be getting some brass and dies and rolling my own.

I figure I can just use 8x57JRS brass, even though it's .323 (or something) instead of .318. To me, that means the cases are basically identical other than the headstamp, unless I am confused.

As for bullets, the .318 offerings are really expensive and not available in much variety. I figured I might get a custom swage die (I think the Lees are fairly inexpensive) and push .32WS bullets through it. Or I could try paper-patching .308 bullets, although I've read that's pretty hard on the rifling.

Another advantage to the swage die is that I could swage non-jacketed .32 ACP bullets (or a 00 buckshot pellet) too, and work up a small game / plinker load, assuming I could get it to shoot anywhere near the point of impact of the full power stuff.

What are yourall's opinions of the gun, and ideas on the above? Did I pay too much? I've never heard of the maker, but it looks well made.....

There are a couple cracks in the wrist, but I think I can fix that (at least insofar as stopping them from spreading, assuming someone hasn't already glued them and pinned them from the other side).

One thing I am really hmm-hawing about is, I'd like to use a red dot sight on it for hunting, so I'll have to have someone tap a couple of blind holes in the rib so I can put a small section of weaver rail on it. Which I hate to do, but I'd rather do it to this one than to my Hollenbeck. Although I do see what appears to be a grub screw of some sort in front of the rear sight, so maybe that can present a mounting option, if I can figure out how to keep it stable with only one screw.

I think I ought to figure out how rare/collectible this gun is before I do that (or ream the shotgun chambers), though. Any ideas?

Thanks, gentlemen. I appreciate your advice and opinions.

Forget the reamer & order from Polywad, RST or similar. It will last you a lifetime.

Yeah, roll your own. 0.318" - 0.321" bullet are plentiful just determine which your solid projectile tube fancies most.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I typoed 76mm instead of 70mm! Sorry! It's currently 2 9/16, and I only intend to ream to 2 3/4. I don't think there's even any such thing as a 3" 16ga! Haha.

Looks like I see a Sauer & Sohn stamp or two, so they either applied some effort on the Blitz lock dreiling or were sourced from components. Also the tubes were sourced from Carl Gottieb H�nel or one of its subcontractors, Gebhard Helmuthhauser / Gebhard Helmuth�user.

13 gramme / 200 grain bullets are quite easy to source. The 13 gramme bullet & 88-8 point to the smaller diameter on the 8X57R/360?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I think there is or was but I'd hold w/ the 65mm and have less recoil, although in a dreiling it might be quite as >>felt<< as w/ a double.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I was looking at just getting 16ga hulls and trimming to 2 9/16. But I don't think my load-all will do that length (or 2.5" either). So it seems like kind of a toss-up, between the cost of a reamer (which I could recoup much of I think) or the cost of a whole new shotgun press (rather than just a 16ga conversion kit).

I guess that's kind of silly of me, considering what I paid for the gun, but a penny saved and all that. Heh.

Does your advice stem from a desire to not alter the gun, or just from an ease-of-doing thing?

Thanks!

Duel purpose statement as not to alter & ease-of-operation as that was the way it was designed. But in the end the chambers might be a little long & 2.5mm isn't a big jump.

I think you got a great deal if the tubes are clean & the triggerplate action w/ Blitz locks functions well.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Cheers,

Oh, and a date: post 1912 & pre-1923 from the images I see. Only issue I see is that the head of the stock has cracked but has been pinned.

Cheers,


Raimey
rse

Axel has a dissertation on the 8x57IR and this may be a portion of it:

"Apparently the changeover was completed 1926. Jon Speed's book "Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles", page 274, shows a table of cartridge dimensions agreed upon July 23, 1926 by the German arms and ammo manufacturers association. It shows new//old designations: 8x57IR // M88/8 mit Rand or M88B, 8x57I // M88N, 8x51 // M88/8 kurz or H, 8x57IS // M88/8S.
The German M1888 cartridge was loaded with a .318" 14.7gramme = 227grs (roughly 15gramme)round nose bullet. This was the standard/only hunting load up to WW1. The military S cartridge used a .323" 10g = 154gr pointed bullet that never became popular as a sporting load. In WW1 the German army changed to the sS = heavy pointed bullet for machine gun use, bullet weight 12,7g =196gr. This became the standard weight for both the I and S bores close to WW2. Up until after WW2 the I = .318" bullet was regarded as the sporting type, while the S-bore was the "military" one, used on Sporting rifles mostly for the "Magnum" loads to relieve pressures. Only the 1940 proof law introduced min-max dimensions and the strict differentiating between I and S bores. So take any rifle proofed for a 15gramme bullet to be an I bore. "

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=300554&page=1

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

You know, I don't think you have the 8X57IR but the 8X57R/360, which I'm currently loading.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse