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Joined: Aug 2018
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Thanks Joe,

Googling around the modern opinion appears to be that the crowned P is a pre-1813 Birmingham proof mark:

E.g. Brian Godwin & John Evans write in "English Provincial Makers’ Marks, New Thoughts on Gun Barrel Markings of 18th and 19th Century British Firearms" that

(p.4)
Quote:
Further examples of early English provincial marks are recorded in Neal & Back’s book “Great British Gunmakers 1540-1740”. They include a pair of pistols stamped with oval marks, crowned P & V and a makers’ mark, by Cornforth c1715, p.389 and a pair with similar marks by D. Newton c1715, pp.380-2. Several firearms by Thomas Richards dated between 1749 & 50 are shown in the companion volume “Great British Gunmakers 1740-1790”, pp.119-120, bearing the crowned P & V and his own T.R mark.
As the 18th century progressed, private proof marks became more common. The usual marks are a crowned P and V contained within an oval (occasionally without the crown). Their similarityto the proof marks of the London Gunmakers Company suggests that this was an attempt to demonstrate that their barrels were properly constructed and proof tested and thus just as good as the London product. The London gunmakers objected most strongly to this practice and confiscated any examples found in the city and its environs as well as fining the people concerned. In 1717, the Gunmakers Company offered a 5 guinea reward in the London Gazette for information concerning the use of “false or counterfeit stamps in imitation of ye sd company’s mark” (“Dictionary of London Gunmakers 1350-1850”, H.L.Blackmore 1985, p.22)
,

(p.6)
Quote:
The crowned P & V proof marks are generally referred to by collectors and dealers today as “Birmingham private proofs”; this is almost certainly due to the fact that many known Birmingham pieces are found with these marks. Some provincial makers used very similar marks, suggesting that they might either have sent their own barrels to Birmingham for proof or else bought Birmingham made barrels. This became more common after about 1760 and certainly by 1800 all manner of firearms could be ordered from a Birmingham gunmaker, complete with whatever signature was required


Making a special note on London guns with the crowned P

(p.8)
Quote:
Interestingly, the barrels of several guns signed by well-known London makers are stamped with the crowned P & V mark described above; for example on a fine sporting gun by John Harman c1730 (see “John Harman c1693- c1760”, 18th Park Lane Arms Fair catalogue 2001); also on a silver mounted cannon barrelled pistol by Joseph Clarkson Jnr., c1765 (private collection) and the pistol illustrated in Figure 16 signed Turvey, London, c1775. No explanation for this anomaly has been found.


Markus

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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Stan,Two Piper et al, thank you, I stand corrected!Excellent cites on your sources.Now I've got to figure out where I got my mis-information from.It may be a trade colloquialism.


Hugh Lomas,
H.G.Lomas Gunmakers Inc.
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Sidelock
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Still at it in 1854


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