doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com LC Smith 2 barrel set 12ga and 45-70

I picked up a LC Smith locally today that is quite interesting. It is a early ejector 12ga serial number 1217. It has a set of crown steel 12ga barrels 28" long and a set of twist barrels that have been turned into 45-70 26" long. What gets me is all the numbers match. I'm thinking that some of the serial numbers have been restamped to match. It is still a neat setup and the 45-70 barrels weigh a ton. I was told J.T. Phillips a double barrel muzzleloader builder did the work on the 45-70 barrels. Here are some pictures.

few more pics

Interesting gun.

Thank you for sharing
Nice old gun

There was a significant gunsmith business in lining Smiths; and usually in 45/70. This is just one barrel



The gun DOM is 1898 and the "Bernard Ribbon" or "Rubans Royal" barrels would be original. That is also an interesting variant found usually on Gr. 1 guns from 1892-1897. Not common to have the grade; '1E', marked on the "barrel loop reinforcing wedge" as yours is.

The Crown Steel barrels would have been added later, likely at the Hunter Arms factory with the fitted FE for 1/2 the price of a Gr. 1, and marked with the same SN. Note the '2'. The ivory FE insert is unlikely to be factory.

The buttplate is aftermarket and found on c. 1900's LC Smith, Ithaca, AH Fox, and Lefever guns. The maker is unknown.

It looks like the extractor screw in the Crown lug is missing?

Very cool. Please let us know if your shoot the 45/70 barrels. The 120 year old gun should of course by evaluated by a double gun specialist before use. You are not far from one of the best, and Buck Hamlin would get a kick out of seeing your gun -
Pevely, MO
636-479-4304

I linked this thread over on the LCSCA Forum for everyone's interest, and thanks for the excellent images which help enormously. Could you please post a full size close up of the breech (without the fingers ) for our image files?
https://members.boardhost.com/lcsmith/msg/1566515466.html

Nice bit of information...

Drew do you even own an L.C. Smith ?

Thanks Drew for the info.
The lock up is tight with the FE off on both sets of barrels and the bores are very nice.
I do plan to shoot the 45-70 barrels.
I had Buck Hamlin do some work for me this spring. He is a very skilled gunsmith.
Here are a few more pictures.

Perfect and thank you!
It appears that the right (used the most) firing pin may be flattened, and the bushing obviously turned. The left bushing looks to never have seen a screwdriver.
And the screw in the lug is there

Could it be the firing pin on the right side was flattened on purpose to prevent blowback from a pierced primer?...Geo

Might be that the firing pin was repaired or replaced and the work was a bit bodgey, judging by the choice of screwdrivers used to do it. That would account for the pins shape.
O.M

Well used but un-bodgered bushings and pins

Is that your L.C. Smith ?

1910 Norvell-Shapleigh catalog and it appears the owner opted for the more expensive Crown steel. $56 in 1910 is almost $1500 today.



There might be shipping records for the gun, and 2nd barrel, which could possibly include the name of the original purchaser or dealer
https://lcsca.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=43784&module_id=245742

Interesting reference to V.M. Starr lining vintage shotguns to .45-70
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/homemade-double-barreled-muzzle-loader.701924/
"The barrels were cut to 25 inches and he regulated them to 80 yards with 300 grain HP bullets. His method was fairly direct. At the muzzle, he drove in wedges to move the liner. When they were hitting as he wanted them, he finished adding the solder and cut the wedges flush with the muzzle."

J.T. Phillips of Beede, Arkansas made flintlocks in the 80s-90s? Earlier? It would seem likely that the original Rubans Royal barrels were retired for the Crown barrels, but retained, and quite some time later converted to .45-70.

Thanks for all the info Drew. I do plan to try to get a LC Smith letter. Yes Mr. Phillips was a muzzleloader builder in the 70�s 80�s and 90�s. So the 45-70 barrels would have been done in that time frame.

Thanks
Robert

Very nice.
In my records I have serial number 12024 an L.C. Smith D Grade hammer shotgun 12 ga. in the right barrel and 44-40 in the left barrel owned at one time by one of our Life Members. This was done at the L.C. Smith Gun Works in Syracuse, N.Y., circa approx. 1884.

That is really cool!

I ordered some Buffalo Bore smokeless black powder equivalent 405gr ammo. I'll give a range report once it arrives. thanks for the replies.

I got a Cody Letter yesterday. It did say anything about the Crown Steel barrels.

There may be no record if the gun was returned to Hunter Arms for replacement barrels.

Dickinson Arms Co. was in Little Rock, Ark.

Dickinson Arms Co. was in Little Rock, Ark. That's neat. Thanks for the info!

I'm surprised the OP isn't being accused of lacking personal responsibility due to the intention to shoot this gun with ammunition that would generate more pressure and recoil than the loads recommended by the factory. We have been warned by the preacher that the frame could crack, and it could injure friends or children.

Disinformation like that is apparently being protected here now. It enhances the experience, especially if accompanied by ancient and irrelevant load data.

jOe, the Preacher has told us that he owns one L.C. Smith O grade with barrels that are honed thin in the forend area. But he uses a handguard to protect friends and children in the area from possible shrapnel. I'd also be concerned about injuries to spectators if the action should crack.

William: your response from the 27th just popped up.
I know you are trying to be clever and insulting by referring to me as "the Preacher"; but you are neither.
There is no greater responsibility and burden than being chosen to share God's word, a task for which I am both unworthy and overwhelmed, and it is a calling irrelevant to my participation on this forum.
Please just use my name, which I freely share.

Actually Preacher, I should apologize to Dave Weber for stating that disinformation is apparently being protected here now. I made that statement because a reply I had made in the "Sideplated Ithaca" thread had not appeared, and I thought he might have discarded or deleted it to spare your sensitive feelings. However, it was finally posted, and I do appreciate that opportunity to reply to the deceptive statement you made there asserting "circuitous twisting" of your words, when nothing could have been further from the truth.

I find it laughable that you feel I am disrespecting you by calling you Preacher, when you know damn well that I go by my middle name, and have been called by my middle name since I was an infant. Yet you try to be clever by calling me William. It doesn't bother me that you do, but it does show us your hypocrisy. And how amusing that you cried and lobbied to have all here post using our full names, claiming that doing so would end the name-calling and personal attacks. Yet you Preacher, continued to engage in name calling and personal attacks even when you knew the full names of those you attacked. I have provided examples of that in the past, and would be happy to do so again. Hard to see any holiness or integrity when you do that.

It is even more laughable that you now state here:

Originally Posted by Drew Hause

There is no greater responsibility and burden than being chosen to share God's word, a task for which I am both unworthy and overwhelmed, and it is a calling irrelevant to my participation on this forum.
.

I totally agree that you are unworthy, considering the number of times you have been completely dishonest with us, while also quoting Scripture and flaunting a holier than thou attitude. Do you recall repeatedly attempting to portray Miller as being in support of slavery, when all he ever did was correctly state that no prohibition against the practice could be found in the Bible? I know that many here have short memories, but you should know by now that I do not. You demonstrate that right here and now by claiming that your calling as a Preacher is irrelevant to this forum. Yet you have clearly brought it front and center many many times. Here's a thread posted by you to refresh your memory.

https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=456891&page=1

I'm quite sure you won't be repentant for falling back on your ministry in order to attempt to silence some critics of you and your cohorts here. And by the way, although I asked you numerous times, you never did explain why you were often so critical of me, JamesM, DaveK, PA24, and others for using the word "Libtard", which you found so potentially insulting to parents of special need children. Yet you never said a word about your friends Dr. Wanker, Last Dollar, and other Liberals using the word "Retard" to repeatedly insult Conservatives here. I provided you with QUOTES and post numbers, but you apparently saw nothing wrong with that. When you say that you are "unworthy", you really aren't kidding.

Feel free to twist, troll and mock my gun related posts William.
Again, I am asking you to please keep my calling and ministry out of it.
Mocking God's (genuine) servants is mocking God, and there are consequences for doing so - Galatians 6:7

I stand on my criticism of Miller's justification of slavery.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=551062&page=5

ding dong, ping pong...

here we go down the rab bit hole...ah gin...