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The Courts now? Those who no longer believe in their most-valued institutions do not remain for long as citizens of a great nation.

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Originally Posted By: keith
Originally Posted By: nca225
..... You each supported a foreign adversary influencing our election because it benefited your political party and ideology and then condoned steps to conceal the influence and lie about it to the American people. Patriots don't do that, traitors do.

So trump voter check your false patriotism at the door please. You failed to defend our democracy before and would fail to defend it again, so I highly doubt your gonna be playing patriotic insurgent anytime soon.


....nca225 is still unable to produce a shred of evidence that Trump engaged in collusion with Russia to throw the election. He/she cannot admit to Obama's interference in the Israeli election process. And Nancy-boy won't go near the huge exchange of cash for influence between Russia and the Clintons.

nca's russia mantra started when dem political donor comey kicked it off with his creativity. Some day, nca might figure out talking points are hollow, but he's useful.

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Bro. King: I came of age in the 60s, but believe our nation is much more and likely irreversibly fractured, and our union may soon be severed. How can we “just get along” when the traditional/conservative/deplorable vs. the progressive/enlightened/liberal positions are:
1. The Constitution means what it says and says what it means. It does not mean what a progressive chooses it to mean today, to be changed tomorrow.
2. The purpose of government is the common good; to serve the people, transparently, and not the other way around; to provide public works and for the defense of our nation. To encourage free enterprise and creativity.
3. Our rights are given by our Creator, and with rights come responsibilities. Our rights are not awarded by the government, which does not exist to give me my desires, wants and perceived needs.
4. The brilliance of our Founding Fathers is in creating a Constitution in which the government is protected from a state church, and the churches are protected from the government. And the minority is protected from the tyranny of the majority. In NO way did the Founding Fathers assert that the church was to have no influence (for good) or voice in government. And they would be shocked that preaching the Bible is now “hate speech” as it is in Europe.
5. Our rights are insured/enforced by the Rule of Law; not the rule of power or wealth (see 3rd world governments below).
6. The 2nd Amendment allows the people to provide for their personal safety (rather than hoping the government will do so), and to prevent the government from denying our God given rights. And many places in our nation have 3rd world levels of violence, which is metastasizing.
7. Killing babies in the womb is as wrong as killing babies after birth.
8. Our nation is exceptional, but with a dark history that must be factually stated, with the appropriate historical context. That does not however justify reparations for every possible victim groups, paid by those who had no responsibility for the harm.
9. Indoctrinating grade schoolers to gender fluidity, and requiring that they celebrate a classmate’s “transition” is wrong.
10. A nation without borders is not a nation, nor secure. And we don't improve 3rd world nations by bringing the nations here. We DO have some (Biblical?) obligation to help the suffering people in 3rd world nations (primarily because of the corruption of the governments) however.

Gun rights are not one issue; the above all go together in the minds of most of us.

So maybe we split into a. the NE; b. the south, mid-west, mountain west and southwest, and c. the left coast? Maybe give New Mexico back to Mexico? wink And let the great migration begin. Really.

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Nah, Doc Drew we're not going to divide up the country. We settled that issue 150 years ago. This country is and always has been peopled with folks who disagreed with one another. But we always settle our differences, usually getting it right in the end. I have full confidence we will get through the current problems...Geo

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Ted, the only thing the you achieve when you parrot debunked conspiracies of wrongdoing from Uranium One to confront the facts found in the Mueller report is to show yourself as not having educated yourself on what the Trump campaign did during the election and what the R's in congress did to cover it up when they had the house. Give it up and read the damn thing Ted. I know its going to cause you to confront your idealized version of the bronzed god, but you owe it to yourself not to be intentionally misinformed.


Last edited by nca225; 08/30/19 10:49 AM.

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Originally Posted By: keith

Libtards like nca225 fail to defend our Republic (not democracy) every time they support the Liberal Left Democrat anti-gunners who work to subvert our Constitution and infringe upon the 2nd Amendment.

Nancy boy places hope in the Courts. Yet he/she votes for Liberal Left Democrats who would stack the Courts with Judges who ignore the Original Intent of the Framers. King also likes the idea of the Constitution as a so-called "Living Document" which can be changed at the whims of activist judges who bypass Congress and legislate from the bench.

King's little brother Larry Clown is concerned that craigd may not know of the process for amending the constitution. But he never chimes in to confront Libtards like King and nca225 who work to bypass that whole process.

As Ted astutely points out, Nancy-boy nca225 is still unable to produce a shred of evidence that Trump engaged in collusion with Russia to throw the election. He/she cannot admit to Obama's interference in the Israeli election process. And Nancy-boy won't go near the huge exchange of cash for influence between Russia and the Clintons.


And more of the same dribble from this guy, who can't recognize what institution actually secures his right and thinks the litmus test for being an American is how much $ you give to the NRA.

Not surprising from a guy who has come out in the past to support the terrorist child molester David Koresh. (Remember the tribute to George HW Bush princess? The one you begged Dave to delete for fear of everyone else seeing who your idols are?


Oh and lets not forget that in addition to being a patron of the Koresh cult and their child molesting persona of Jesus, you are also a closet Nazi and anti-Semite.

Nazi keith’s post # 4#9##5

Originally Posted By: keith

Originally Posted By: keith
Jim, the old German gunsmith who lived a couple miles from my Dad once showed me some vierlings and drillings that were engraved and inlaid like this. I used to frequent his gun shop and was looking at the used gun rack one day, and he came over and said in broken English, "These guns... all junk! You want see some nice guns, I show you nice guns." He took me into his house which was attached to the shop, and it was stuffed with guns of all kinds. Many were extremely ornate, heavily engraved, and inlaid with gold, silver, and ivory.

He explained to me that he was trained as an armorer for the German Army during WWII, and that part of his his job was to destroy guns that the Nazi's confiscated from towns and villages they conquered during the Blitzkrieg. They would issue a decree to the residents that they had 24 hours to turn in their guns, and if they were caught with guns after that, they were executed.

He told me he was supposed to remove the stocks from the guns, burn the wood, and put the breech section of the barreled action in a press, and crush it so it could not be recaptured and reused. The scrap was sent to steel mills to be converted to new steel for Nazi weapons. He said, "Oh, I crush a lot of very nice guns, but really nice ones, I keep and stash when I can. Then after the war, I come to United States, and my brother smuggle them over here to me." I have no idea how they accomplished this, but he didn't just have a lot of guns. He literally had tonnage. Not all of it was as nice as your photo, but I saw stuff that rivaled anything I saw in the NRA Museum, Harold's Club Casino gun collection in Reno, or anything else I've seen.

The last time I saw these guns was in 1991 during the first Gulf War. I went to his new house he built after he retired to see if he had some Mauser parts I needed. His wife remembered me and invited me in because he wasn't feeling well. The new house was also stuffed with guns... thousands of them, in every room. Many were getting that dry rust patina that comes from neglect. It would have taken a year just to clean them all. He and his wife were cheering for Saddam Hussein as CNN reported that Iraq was firing Scud missiles into Israel. They called them "Stud Missiles" in their broken English, and saying they hoped Saddam killed all of the Jews. Once a Nazi, always a Nazi, I guess.


With people like you the shooting fraternity is doomed.


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Originally Posted By: Drew Hause
Bro. King: I came of age in the 60s, but believe our nation is much more and likely irreversibly fractured, and our union may soon be severed. How can we “just get along” when the traditional/conservative/deplorable vs. the progressive/enlightened/liberal positions are:
1. The Constitution means what it says and says what it means. It does not mean what a progressive chooses it to mean today, to be changed tomorrow.
2. The purpose of government is the common good; to serve the people, transparently, and not the other way around; to provide public works and for the defense of our nation. To encourage free enterprise and creativity.
3. Our rights are given by our Creator, and with rights come responsibilities. Our rights are not awarded by the government, which does not exist to give me my desires, wants and perceived needs.
4. The brilliance of our Founding Fathers is in creating a Constitution in which the government is protected from a state church, and the churches are protected from the government. And the minority is protected from the tyranny of the majority. In NO way did the Founding Fathers assert that the church was to have no influence (for good) or voice in government. And they would be shocked that preaching the Bible is now “hate speech” as it is in Europe.
5. Our rights are insured/enforced by the Rule of Law; not the rule of power or wealth (see 3rd world governments below).
6. The 2nd Amendment allows the people to provide for their personal safety (rather than hoping the government will do so), and to prevent the government from denying our God given rights. And many places in our nation have 3rd world levels of violence, which is metastasizing.
7. Killing babies in the womb is as wrong as killing babies after birth.
8. Our nation is exceptional, but with a dark history that must be factually stated, with the appropriate historical context. That does not however justify reparations for every possible victim groups, paid by those who had no responsibility for the harm.
9. Indoctrinating grade schoolers to gender fluidity, and requiring that they celebrate a classmate’s “transition” is wrong.
10. A nation without borders is not a nation, nor secure. And we don't improve 3rd world nations by bringing the nations here. We DO have some (Biblical?) obligation to help the suffering people in 3rd world nations (primarily because of the corruption of the governments) however.

Gun rights are not one issue; the above all go together in the minds of most of us.

So maybe we split into a. the NE; b. the south, mid-west, mountain west and southwest, and c. the left coast? Maybe give New Mexico back to Mexico? wink And let the great migration begin. Really.


Drew. Rights are not given to us by the Creator. There is none. Rights are secured through force and will.

If it were true that rights are secured through a creator, where the hell was he during most of recorded history where the track record is oppression by those in power? God didn't give use any level of freedom. We took it by force, and to say god gave it to us ignores the sacrifices of those who actually fought to secure it.

Case in point:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/0...lYBN/story.html

Where is the creator and his endowed rights for these kids?


Last edited by nca225; 08/30/19 11:05 AM.

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Originally Posted By: craigd
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
....Craig, can we assume that you know the mechanism by which the Constitution can be amended is a bit more complicated than "a popular vote"? It's not like the anti-gun people could put a measure to repeal the 2nd Amendment on the 2020 ballot, and if it were to pass by a majority, then 2A would be repealed.

I suppose you’re trying to impress on me how difficult it would be to amend the Constitution? Maybe, you could address your thought to King, to put his popular vote claim into perspective?


Craig, are you suggesting that American voters never vote FOR gun control measures? Never elect politicians who support additional gun control? You must not be living in the same country I am. Because very much depending on the state, sometimes gun measures go one way; sometimes they go the other way. So King is correct in stating that Americans do demonstrate--by popular vote--that they're not all of the same mind when it comes to guns.

And before you question my personal credentials on the issue: You probably know about Iowa's first in the nation caucuses. Always attended back when I lived there. What people outside of Iowa don't know is that a caucus is a whole lot more than a primary. It's not just casting your vote for a candidate. The caucus chairman requests suggestions for planks in the state party platform. At my 2008 caucus, I was the guy who suggested that Iowa change what was then a "may issue" concealed carry law (meaning Iowa's 99 county sheriffs got to decide who got approved for CCW and who didn't) to "shall issue". Which meant that the sheriff had to be able to prove why he rejected someone's application for CCW. My suggested party plank passed . . . unanimously. And, I'm proud to say, Iowa is now a "shall issue" state.

And I'm glad you really do understand that amending the Constitution is a difficult process.

Last edited by L. Brown; 08/30/19 11:18 AM.
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Originally Posted By: nca225



Drew. Rights are not given to us by the Creator. There is none. Rights are secured through force and will.

If it were true that rights are secured through a creator, where the hell was he during most of recorded history where the track record is oppression by those in power? God didn't give use any level of freedom. We took it by force, and to say god gave it to us ignores the sacrifices of those who actually fought to secure it.

Case in point:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/0...lYBN/story.html

Where is the creator and his endowed rights for these kids?



NCA--It would appear you are in disagreement with Thomas Jefferson and what he stated in the Declaration of Independence:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."

But Jefferson never said that we were guaranteed to KEEP those rights without help. The quotation in question continues:
"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." That's the kind of government we have. And if you look through history, men usually lost those rights when the government under which they lived did NOT derive its just powers from the consent of the governed. So although some may look on government as evil, the right kind of government--a democracy--is a very necessary evil.

Of course no government is perfect. I believe it was Churchill who said that democracy is the worst kind of government . . . except for all the others. Sometimes we don't get it right. But at least it's up to US and not some unelected monarch or dictator to straighten things out.

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Just wait till we buy Greenland and establish the gulags there. Then we'll have a place to send these people...Geo

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