doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DIY Gunsmithing @ doublegunshop.com Best Bench Vise

If you could only have one bench vise for general gunsmithing, what would it be?

I'm more interested in features of the vise than I am in brand, but if you have a favorite maker and model, that's fine too.

As a side discussion, if you think there is a better option than the bench machinist's vise for working on guns, please chime in.

4" Wilton Bullet vise.

Thanks Steve. Just to prime the pump a little more...

Is a swivel base necessary?
Is a carriage makers vise (tall jaws, e.g. Reed 224 or 424) or some other specialty vise better than a standard jaw vise?
Is 4" the optimal vise width?
Are replaceable jaws a must?
Machinist vise vs mechanic vise? (i.e. is the anvil on a mechanic vise essential?)
Anyone prefer a blacksmith's leg vise?

And just in case that doesn't generate enough discussion:

Wilton vs Reed vs Parker... Go!

I think this is a good area to be a bit patient and check out flea markets and garage sales for something older and heavy that wasn't used as an anvil or has a bent handle like it was forced beyond what it was intended. If it's better quality, I like a quick release feature, but true and smooth is more important.

Maybe, jaw face options and why just one vise are thoughts to toss around.

I'm trolling eBay, Facebook marketplace, etc currently.

As for just one vise... I have a wooden screw leg vise on my woodworking bench and a quick release face vise on my general/gunsmithing work bench. I also have a small tail vise on another little bench where I have grinders and a lathe.


But I'm considering replacing my Craftsman bench vise with the primary use as a gunsmithing vise.

Thus, I'm wondering what everyone thinks it's the quintessential gunsmithing vise.

Every good gunsmith's shop I've seen has used Wiltons. I like them because of the lower profile than other types.

Having said that, I inherited a 4" Yost from the 1960's that has the swivel jaw feature. A bit beat up but brass and lead jaws are still available. Works well for me. Used Wiltons ain't cheap or easy to find or cheap to ship. There's a realy beat up one now on Ebay for $325, at least he's shipping free...

Yes the Wiltons are painfully expensive but you only buy them once. I do like the swivel feature on mine. I have a 2&1/2" bullet vise as well but use it for small stuff over by my Fordham tool. I need a big very firm vise and the 4" size fits the bill in my shop.

Around here a lot of gunsmiths use a "Versa Vice" or a more modern Brownell version. They may also have another, more robust, vise of various make for "rough" work.
Mike

Here is what I settled on for my main vise: Charles Parker 674 1/2 Coachmakers or Woodworkers vise. It's a 77# chunk of iron. Should arrive early next week.



I missed a Wilton bullet on Facebook, and all the ones I could find on eBay were either beyond my budget or looked pretty beat up. I'm certain I would have been happy with a Wilton and I'm going to keep my eye out for a good deal on one.

I'm going to answer my own original question by listing the features I like in the Parker:

Stout.
Deep throat and large,non-textured jaw faces.
High angle jaws for easier approach to the work.
Swivel base.
Covered screw.
Elegant design. (On this, I actually prefer the Reed 424 design, which is more refined to my eye).
And, as an added bonus, made by a maker of fine double guns.


I might add a versa vise type vise at some point in the future, but I was really looking for a vise to be the anchor of the bench... And this should fit the bill. I think it will also work well for knife making, hand tool restoration, etc.

I think I bought this Wilton, brand, spanking, new, in about 1990:



I had finally sickened of going to auctions, and seeing cracked, stripped, bent handles, and every other form of abused vise at auctions, and them being bid to stupid levels of cost. My vise set me back $390, at that time, replacement is well north of 1K, now, and I have a good friend who regularly pleads with me to sell it to him.

The base is 1/4� wall, seamless, drawn over mandrel, 4140 hydraulic tubing, that was polished internally and externally, for some sort of large, two stage ram. I welded flanges on each end, drilled and tapped for the vise base, with a 1� hole drilled and tapped to put a pipe plug into the top. This allowed me to fill the base with spent lead shot and oil, making the entire mount �dead blow�. It is bolted to the concrete floor with multiple anchors.

The mount is far enough away from the bench that I didn�t use the swivel feature. I can walk all the way around it. GET THE VISE OFF THE BENCH! No bench is sturdy enough. The newer Wilton�s have a key way in the bottom of the tube, to hold the vise to .005 lateral movement when you are drawing it down. That is important. The older Wilton�s don�t have that, another reason to avoid auctions, and buy new.

If you don�t have a decent vise, you have nothing. It is a foundation tool in any shop, and mine gets utilized for far more than just gunsmithing projects. I�d be lost, without it.

Best,
Ted

I used a 4&1/2" leg vice I bought form G & S Holloway for 39 years for most of my work.I also had a 5" leg vice used on the barrel bench .Before that I used leg vices of similar size for all my time at W & S . Additionally for very occasional use I had a 4" engineer's vice .

If only one was allowed the 4&1/2" leg vice would have done for me .

gunman,
All my German gunsmith friends normally used leg vises, while often having a heavier( don't know German brand) vise also. They all had removable wooden jaws ,usually also 1 set faced with leather.
Mike

I have a baggo Parker vises big and small, but for all around use, I use a #973, a medium size swivel base model. They must have been in production late in Parker history because most of the ones I have seen have been in good to excellent condition. I have never seen one like you pictured, but it looks like a good choice. I have a 180 pound monster on one bench but it just gets in the way, does not swivel, but it looks impressive.

I have a Chas. Parker 288-1/2 if anyone is looking.

I had never seen one before either, but I think it will be great for what I'm hoping to do with it.

I came across the idea of a Coach makers vise while reading a post on GarageJournal called everything you need to know about vises. (For those interested, their 'vises of garage journal' page currently has 75,239 posts. They take their vises seriously.)

What I liked about the coachmakers/patternmakers/woodworkers vise is that it looked like a hybrid of a standard machinist's vise (heavy duty) and a versa vise (tall thin jaw faces).

I especially like the looks of the Reed 224 1/2.



My Parker 674 1/2 should arrive tomorrow. And I'll post a photo once it's in position.

I'd love to have a blacksmiths leg vise just for the nostalgia of it, if for no other reason, but my shop is too small to have a good spot for it.

I do have a leg vise, but it's on my Roubo-style woodworking bench. It's got a 2" wooden screw and is attached to a bench that weighs a ton. I decided to gussie it up with a little carving.

Nice job.
Mike

Always used lead vice clamps [ jaws ] when holding metal .Just smelt and re cast when worn .
Cork and or felt for holding stocks or barrels by the tubes and always cloth around them all when holding finished and easily marked parts .

Going to the 5� Wilton machinists vise got you an 8� opening, over the 6 1/2 of the 4�. The 6� and larger models had cuts on the exterior of the jaws to bolt the replacement jaws to the vise, and, to my eye, created a weak spot right where it wasn�t needed. The 6 and 8 inch Wilton�s are horrifically expensive, the 8� is over 4K.
Comparing the upper end Wilton vises to products made 50-100 years past is like comparing an F16 to a Saber jet. The Wilton machinists vise is sealed, lubed, keyed, has an unbreakable nut, serviceable jaw facings, is rebuildable, and is built of superior ductile iron. It hasn�t had a century of abuse pounded onto it, and the company that built it is still right here, and will sell you the things you need to keep it going. I should get a set of smooth jaws for mine, but, haven�t, yet. The rubber faced aluminum soft jaws have been excellent, thus far.
There are two smaller vises in the shop as well, a 4 1/2� Craftsman that was a Christmas present from my Dad, and a tiny little Red Devil clamp on, that was his vise when I was a child. The flat jaws in the clamp on make it handy to straighten a cotter or nail without tearing it up, but, the small vises don�t actually get much use.
Some thought went into the mount that was built for the Wilton. Being able to walk to the back of the vise and having a clear shot at the anvil, as opposed to working only from the front, is a game changer. I�d never go back to having the main vise on the bench.

Best,
Ted

I'd buy this one.

Versa Vise
http://www.willburtversavise.com/shop/kbwd9agpekwg9uyxn57iai6aflkso0



I've had this one for 20 years. I use it mainly for wood working and holding guns/barrels while I clean or work on them.

Here's the drop in leather padded attachment I made no chance of marring metal or wood with these...the taller jaws of this vice have an advantage over most vices with short jaws.

Three, whole, Phillip�s head wood screws, holding the thing down to a chunk of 1X pine, nailed into more pine?

That isn�t a vise mount. That is stove wood. Or, exhibit A of how not to mount a vise. That, is an embarrassment.

What is the Channel Locks for? Fine woodworking?

Just �cause it says �Craftsman� where you park your ass, doesn�t make you one.

Best,
Ted

Buy this one. It ain�t a toy vise:


https://www.wiltontools.com/us/en/p/machinist-5-jaw-round-channel-vise-with-stationary-base/28837

But, build a decent mount for it. Don�t use wood. Or, Phillips head wood screws.

Best,
Ted

Homeless, your vise looks like a Parrot Vice.

Mr. Shittle'brains the guy was asking for a gun vise not a blacksmith vise.

My vise is mounted with lag bolts with counter sunk heads on a bench top that is made from a commercial laminated door....you'd pull the bumper off that old clunker Oldsmobile of yours if you hooked to it.

Most any idiOt knows a gun or woodworking vice is made for holding things not for beating them to death.....

I guess you could clamp your Darne bolt action shootgun in that big Wilton vise of yours and whip the hell out of it.

David I had an older Versa Vice before I bought this one close to 25 years ago...I looked today only markings on it is "Made in America".

(Maybe Teddy bOy will post a picture of his Darne or Mossberg pumper clamped in his big Wilton blacksmith vice).

Before the discussion completely derails....

It seems like a smaller versa vise / parrot vise is a fine option for most gunsmithing tasks, since, as you said, the majority of jobs really just need the 'third hand'. If I had a little more space (and money) I would ideally have a vise of this type in the shop.

But there are also undoubtedly times when a larger vise- Even a blacksmiths post vise- would give more stability for heavier duty jobs.

I take from the whole of the discussion- and from what I've seen used by professional gun makers (on YouTube, Instagram, etc) that there is not one perfect gunsmithing vise. The Holland and Holland video, e.g., shows a variety of bench and post vises being used in the same shop, although they all seem to be of the heavier class.

Being of the traditionist/purist bent but also having limited space in my shop, I have chosen the Parker 674 1/2, which was advertised as a 'woodworkers' vise. At nearly 80# (10# more than the Wilton 6.5" tradesman vise, e.g.) it is plenty stout. But the jaw design seems like it will have some of the advantages of the versa vise (not including the vertical/horizontal switching mechanism).

Here it is next to my 4" Craftsman bench vise, which it will be replacing.

I'm not even in the ballpark of something like a Wilton 500n, which is several thousands of dollars, as you said.

But I do have my eye on a well used Wilton 1765 (tradesman vise) that is coming up at a local auction. If I can get it for $100 or so, I'll probably go for it and just figure out a place for it in the shop.

The only way I could make a steel post stand for it would be if it were mobile, which might defeat the purpose of the steel post. I am short on space.

Careful now Jim...

It was dingle berry Ted that started the derailment...

I'm betting the only thing Teds clamped in his Wilton is a lawn mower blade.

I do like the tall deep jaws on the vice you bought....

Jim it's hard to tell from a picture but the overall tall height might call for a bench height adjustment..it would be real easy to make a wood and leather drop in for it.

Keep in mind while discussing vises for a gunshop that the height the vise is mounted is of utmost importance, regardless the size of it. Often, in gun work, a vise is called upon to hold a part for filing. When filing it is imperative that the piece being filed is at elbow level, so that the file stroke is horizontal and not up, at an angle, then down at an angle. The best work with a file is done perfectly horizontal. I was taught this by a tool and die maker many years ago. Practice will prove this true. I have seen him even stand on a few pieces of plywood to make the work in the vise the right height for best filing, and so that the file stroke allowed his forearm to make perfectly horizontal passes, and not angling up and down.

SRH

The 500N is right around $1100 after it is shipped. The UPS man won�t have much to say to you for awhile, after he delivers it.

Eventually, one will discover that the vise they set up for fine woodworking will be pressed into some other use. It is better to have too much, rather than too little vise on hand. If you�ve only got room for one, make it a good one. The mount is just as important as the vise itself.

I�ve separated a lot of front end components on that anvil for the car restorations I�ve done here. And, plenty of general maintenance gun work, where I could have gotten by with smaller/less. But, bigger is better.

Best,
Ted

"1990"

Hell you say...

Ted from the loOKs of your picture I'd say you have what's commonly referred to as a "set around vise".

A set around tool shows little to no use...from the pic it looks to me like it just sets around while you sit on a bar stool and drink beer and look at it and say...."bOy look at that big ol'vice".



Show us a pic of some "general maintenance gun work" you've done with your big SAV.

Ps...Teddy bOy you're more full of chit than your mossy turd pump shotgun.

I was thinking of the 800s, which is 3-4k.

As for UPS, I'm pretty sure when they left my Parker in the carport looking like this...

... They were letting me know what they thought about carrying an 80# package!

I think the blame is more on the UPS store in Ohio that did the packaging, but I'd give UPS poor marks all around in the one

Woodreaux's statement a couple pages back is correct. There is no one vise that is good for everything. But it is also true that there is seldom room for one of every kind of vise. I have a small( 2 1/2") swivel machinist type vise with brass jaws and small Vee blocks mounted on a piece of 2x4 that is clamped in the versa vise or bench vise, depending on lighting and height requirements( and now, whether I can stand or must sit on a stool).It swivels on itself and tilts in the other vise. A hand vise gets a good bit of use clamped in a larger vise. Sometimes I lock the headstock on one of the lathes and use the chuck as a vise. This doesn't even address milling machine and drill press vises. We can't forget about the barrel vise, some people claim they use the bench vise as a barrel vise, but you can color me highly doubtful of that.
Mike

No wood screws holding tools, no China locks on the bench, nothing a craftsman like you would understand. You should be more careful with your hacksaw when you are sawing junk in your vise. The hack marks in the jaws of that toy look right at home in your shop, no doubt. You proud of that?
I can�t ever recall having to clamp an O/U by the tubes, like you did in your tinker toy vise.
Nice.

Best,
Ted

I clamp barrels like that when I clean them Mr. Shitt'ferbrainz.

The reason the forearm is on the barrels is because it's a Browning Superposed and I don't pull the forearm every time I clean it.

Still waiting for a picture of something clamped in your SAV.

Still waiting to hear the reason you�ve got such a crummy mount under your crummy vise.

You go first. But, a guy who mounts a vise, with Philips head wood screws, to a plank on top of 2X4s is beyond reason.

Worst piece of junk ever pictured, here.


Best,
Ted

No pic Ted....

Least you could is clamp a beer can in the big SAV and snap a picture demonstrating it's great crushing power.

Ted those are not small Phillips head screws screwed to a 2x4...the bench top is a commercial grade solid wood door. I used those bolts because I wanted the counter sunk heads.

Did yo momma try and drown you when you were little and cause your brAin damage ?....or is it just the Fwench fried genetics ?

Ted should get out more.

Check this out Teddy.

I use it cleaning rifles too Teddy

Worked great at holding this Ted...that's a small Unimat lathe chuck clamped in my jUnk vice with a piece of Ivory I was checkering.

Another project in my jUnk Versa Vice....

Time for a picture of your Craftsmanship Mr. Ted.

I like that you always have a China Locks close to your hacksaw scarred crummy vise and mount. Looks about like I figured it would.


Best,
Ted

It's otay Teddy boye eYe knew u had no craftsmanship....that's why you have such a huge vice.



Ps Tedward what's a "China locks" ?

deleted

I know I�m impressed.

I get a lot of turkeys every year that are too stupid to get out of the way of the snow plow.

No need to waste ammunition on them.

You can feel free.

Turkey call? About like a deer call.


Best,
Ted

I'm still waiting on a Ted the craftsman photo

Deleted

Teddy here's another pic of my junk Versa Vice at work.

Cleaning lady been off this year?

Looks like a fire trap.


Best,
Ted

Had a fire in there yesterday....lucky my USA made china locks were close by.

Here's the link to the most versatile gunsmith vise ever made.

Versa Vise
http://www.willburtversavise.com/shop/kbwd9agpekwg9uyxn57iai6aflkso0

I'm way late as usual, but about 3mos. ago I went to a garage sale and bought an old rusty vise. I sprayed it with WD-40 and sealed it in a plastic bag. All this talk about a bench vise got me to wondering what I had. All it said was Scout 3 1/2" and other numbers. Lo and behold it's a Wilton according to some web pages when I googled "who made scout 3 1/2" vise." Paid $5 and I'm keeping it.

It's not by any means top of line, and yeah it's Chink, but I have one of these:

https://www.harborfreight.com/2-1-2-half-inch-table-swivel-vise-97160.html

It comes in quite handy, and the quality is not all that bad. But it sure a'int a Versa Vice.

The restoration of my Parker vise is coming along, with lots of work. I primed and put a coat of paint on it today, and I'm going to do the letters tomorrow. Here it is in primer:



I had painted the screw retaining washer yesterday, so I went ahead and did the letters on that.



And in the meantime, I stumbled onto a Wilton Tradesman with 6.5" jaws at auction nearby. I'm probably going to restore it and then used it for the really heavy work, including some blacksmithing. It's not as nice as yours Ted, but I'm going to try to get it back in shape.



And yes, homelessjoe, when I finish the Parker I'm probably going to sit around, drink a beer and have a good long look at it. (And then get after it, putting the thing to use before you call it an SAV!)

Ted the SAV will be a heck of a buy someday for someone.

Jim,
You can get new jaws for that at Wilton. Any internal parts it might need as well. There is a guy who sells Wilton Parts on the 'net, but, I don't have the address at hand.
jOe, if you are waiting, my son and whatever spawn he has will more than likely keep my vise in use until not only your grave location is forgotten, but, your little paper weight vise has been smelted into something useful by the Chinese.

Best,
Ted

Hell of a buy on a non tinker toy vise:

https://www.ebay.com/p/27032343869

Half off, and ships for free. That is a 150 pound vise. If I didn�t have a 500N already....

Best,
Ted

I bet you like fat women that like to lay around too...

Not so, bonehead:



110 pounds, 2005.

115 pounds, last Friday night.



Don�t you get sick of being full of dung?

Best,
Ted

Adjusting chainline on an old Raleigh:




Nice to have the bike up off the floor and to be able to walk around it. Easy to get the dial caliper on the seat tube and measure exactly where the chain ring rides. If jOe tried this with his tinker�s vise, those 2X4s he built the mount out of would cry uncle and fall apart. I use my vise for more and bigger projects than turkey calls.

Best,
Ted

Finally...a picture of Ted's reAl craftsmanship.

Tedward that picture reminds me of a joke.

How big a vise does it take for a Fwench pOllock to change a bicycle chain ?








Answer...slightly smaller than Teds SAV.

(No offense meant towards any Polish people)

Tell you what. Clamp a two foot long pipe in your tinker�s vise, and sit Mrs.jOe on the end of it.
Try to snap a picture before the wall tears off the building....

Best,
Ted

Tedward I don't need a two foot pipe to satisfy Mrs. jOe.



I figured you had a kinky vise...you go first Ted post us a pic.

Check this out Ted...it's even got a set of pipe jAws for perverts.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Antique...ws/163917271964

It would appear he's missing one attachment

If she married you, satisfaction wasn�t a concern of hers. You, or the nunnery must have been the options.

I do all kinds of work in my shop. If you owned a Darne, you would discover you had time for other projects.
I�ve seen many broken Superposed Browning�s. The ribs pop like lightbulbs in a fire. Or, like model 21s. Funny you ain�t bragging on those, the losing horses all seem to make it back to your house...

The ebay vise is the same tinker�s vise you own. A little toy vise, for a guy who works on little things, and clamps his gun barrels in it to clean �em.

I doubt you could lift my vise to bolt it down to the mount. Probably missus jOe could.

Best,
Ted

Ted the guy didn't ask what vise would you want for general automotive or blacksmith work.

Again you just keep on and on and show how big of an idiot you really are....

I guess that's why Darne shotguns were invented...

By an idiot for idiots.

I got her through the mAil....out of BrA'zil Mississippi.

Both you guys are making a really bad mistake bringing your wives into this foolishness. That's not just an opinion, that's a fact...Geo

It was Teddy not eYe...go back and look.

Here's another vise I have it's an old Wards...a lot slower set up than my Will Burt Versa Vice and very seldom gets any use.

First comment about the opposite sex, it was all you, blowhard.

The best vise for general gunsmithing is the best vise, period. That is spelled �Wilton� by anybody who knows anything about tools. Bigger is always better. American made is always better in a vise. There is nothing on the market to compare to the round bar, keyed Wilton, and there never will be. Your favorite new vise, the Versa vise, is full of Chinese junk parts. Anything they can get built cheaper in the Far East is in it. I�ve pressed bearings and studs with the Wilton that would have broken a Versa vise in half if you tried it. And, as Stan noted, the mount is perfectly at elbow level, well illuminated, and free standing, in a dead blow mount that makes it perfect for detail work.

Once you have a vise, you will use it for other projects. Anybody who thinks their only vise in the shop will only be used for gun work is fooling themselves. Better to buy more than you might need than less. True with a lot of tools, air compressors, for example. I�d bet you have a fine example of a Chinese compressor, don�t you?

Someday you should buy a real vise, jOe. And put it in a real mount. What you have pictured is a joke.

By the way, I never have and never will respond to any stupid PMs from you (you are an idiot) so, you can quit sending them.


FOAD, moron.

Ted

The guy asked about a gunsmith vise...you took that as an opertunity to brag about your big automotive/blacksmith vise.

What I said about fat women had nothing to with your wife Teddy bOy...

Just thought that since you like big do nothing vises that deep down you'd have to like fat women.

The pm...I just sent you an ebay link to a cool vintage bicycle seat...I should have figured you'd be too dumb to click on it.

Hate to burst yer Wilted bubble Ted....

Lowes has a Wilton Vise made in China.

My older vice says USA right on the side of it...



Can Stan save you from yourself Ted ?

"Elbow level" is too low for detail work unless you want a back ache and a sore neck...

That's understandable that you don't know this because you know nothing about doing detail work.



You calling this guy a liar...Think he's a mOron too Ted.

Tell us how you really feel TedwArd....

We wait with bAited breath.

Elbow level for filing, always has been, always will be. Anything else is for weekend warriors or posers.

Talk about pOsers....

Ha..ha...ha...

Almost 14K posts and you still have nothing to offer FrAnk.

This reminds of the time you signed up for my online remedial metallurgy class and finally learned that quenching is part of the color case hardening process. You were wrong then even though clearly your common sense told you no quench was involved. Similarly, you are wrong now to question Stan and Ted on the correct level to mount a vise. The correct height to mount a vise has always been elbow level and will remain so.

We all know you don't know jAck Scheet

I�ve got several vises in my shop, all at or close to elbow level. I do agree that as things get more detailed there is benefit to being slightly above elbow level, for normal work at elbow level, and for heavy work slightly below elbow level. While it�s a very personal thing elbow level is a great place to start, from there put some time on it and modify to suite or have multiple vises at varying heights. Typically we are talking a + or - 2� at most window. Comparing extremes look at the work height of a blacksmiths anvil and watchmakers/jewelers/engravers work height. As work gets higher you�re giving up mechanical advantage for a closer view, more control, and faster shoulder/arm fatigue due to upper body position and tension.

If a guy spends 40hrs a week at a workbench whom should tell him what works...after thousands of hours he�s figured things out.

My main vise is a vintage Rock Island No.52. 4.5� jaws with 9� opening, swivel base, and swiveling rear jaw.

I hate to admit they were right.

I'm not one to waste my time pondering things...

I'm in my shop now the Ward vise is perfect elbow level...the more versitile Versa Vice is about an inch over elbow level in the upright position...my work bench is 38 &3 /4" inches tall.

Maybe they can sleep better...

Ted, do you have any resonance when filing or sawing with that vise mounted as you have?

No. As noted above, there is a 1" hole in the top flange, under the vise, tapped for a pipe plug. The mount is filled to within a 1/2 inch or so of the top with spent lead shot, purchased at my club, and a few quarts of 30 weight oil.

Totally dead blow. But, I think it was overkill, as there was little to no harmonic going on prior to that. I used it for a while without, but, planned on that right from the beginning.

jOe thinks you get a Wilton from Lowe's. That would be cute if it were true.
You get a Wilton from a tool jobber. Lowe's has boxes with the name Wilton on them so idiots like him think they can run with the big dogs.



Best,
Ted

I'm not sold on the idea that a Wilton is the only good vise. In fact, the guys over at garage journal forum (who collect, restore and use vises like members of this board collect guns) seem to mostly put Wilton behind Reed and Parker. That may just be because Wilton is so popular. Like Parker or Fox guys wanting to look down on guys who shoot a Browning or whatever. Sometimes if it's popular, the enthusiasts automatically dismiss it. On the other hand, the popularity of Wilton could be because they continued to manufacture vises in the states well beyond the time Parker, Reed, and a bunch of others stopped.

Regardless, it seems like Reed and Parker in the states and Record in the UK are the top of the pile, with Wilton being the most popular and most readily available in the states.

In terms of weight, is does seem like the concensus is bigger=better up to a point. Jack Rowe (cue the know it alls who will say Jack Rowe was a hack...) says that a vise of at least 4" is best. Likewise, when you look at videos of shop tours of purdey, Holland & Holland, etc or the small shops currently making best quality guns, they all have beefy vises on the bench. I have not seen any on an island post, except some post vises in blacksmith shops. It seems to me one issue would supporting the gun while working on it. There is essentially no reasonble way to have a horse in place under the buttstock when the action is in the vise. That seems like a real problem.

As for versa vise, engravers vise, etc, there are obviously times when a big vise isn't necessary, and a smaller vise designed for a specific job is better.

It's nonsense to argue about whether a Wilton 800s is 'better' or 'worse' than a versa vise.
That would be like arguing that a towtruck is better than a sports car. It all depends of course.

As for the angle of approach, I am going to drop my bench down a few inches to address that. I might even need to get a step when trying to file, etc, perfectly square.

I made a horse out of a drummers �throne� for getting away from the bench. Works fine.

What do you mean? Do you mean the stock rests on throne (is that what common folk would call a stool?) When the action is clamped in the vise?

Send me a text at the number in my signature, I�ll respond with a picture.

Jim,
There is a point at which you are no longer in the realm of small vise work. It happens to any guy the first day that he installs a vise in his shop. I recently rebuilt a Stahl folder at work, and pressed 18 bearings out of the boxing�s with my vise. I had access to a small press, but, the Wilton is the better tool for the task, because the bar is keyed, it was rigidly mounted, and was at the correct height. The key holds lateral movement of the movable jaw to less than .005. The Reeds, Parker�s and any other square bar vises will not have that feature. That means you will stop, open, reposition, and constantly check and recheck to see that your push remains square to the work. They are also old, and likely to be sloppy, at this point in time. The old vises were blacksmith vises, to a large degree, but, the Wilton�s have far more precision built into the task of moving the jaw in and out. You can do precision work on the Wilton�s that is tough, or impossible on an older vise with some wear, and, you can do blacksmith work if need be.
I�ve owned both. The Wilton makes most tasks simple. It is also difficult to find older vises that don�t have a bunch of lash from wear and abuse. I don�t want to turn the handle 3/4 of a turn in or out before I get a reaction on the movable jaw. That makes it too hard to position the work. I have cut new nuts for old vises with buttress threads, and while it improves things, it is not like a new Wilton.
The guys that restore and collect vises have their own reasons for doing that. It may not be to have the best all round tool up to any task that comes your way. Nostalgia doesn�t pay the bills. The sports car and tow truck analogy is way off track, by the way. The bigger vise has more material on the jaw surface, spreading it out over a larger area, and using less force to hold the work than a smaller vise does. The bigger vise gives you options the smaller one can�t. The big vise can do big tasks, and is useful for detail work as well. The little vise is useful for detail work, and not up to bigger tasks. It isn�t an accident that you don�t see any Versa vises in those gunmaker videos. I can�t argue with Jack�s assessment that 4� is minimum, either. But, I�d say not a Sears Craftsman 4�, and if I have to explain the difference between consumer and industrial 4� vises, I might as well be at the beach.

Looks like our homeboy jOe be a Lowe�s kinda playa�. We should have known.

If you want one vise in your shop, you would be hard pressed to beat a round bar Wilton. I like the 500, because it does not have the external cuts on either jaw like the 600 and 800 models, has a 5� jaw, has adequate mass, and is smooth on top. Is is built of ductile iron, keyed, sealed, lubed, and has a functioning company supporting warranty and parts supply. The best time to buy one was 20-30 years past, the second best time is right now, before the next price increase.
What is not to like?

Best,
Ted