doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Williams and Powell - Liverpool

Just snagged a W and P double 12 bore. From what I can see and compare to the charts I've round on various posts here it was proofed before 1904 at Birmingham and then again post 2005.

Its been elsewhere though - one mark I cannot find reference here for London or Birmingham is a "R" with a crown above it and also there is a "12-70" on the flats. Any ideas?

I can't post photos unfortunately as I don't have any web hosting for them but it is a thing of beauty. Seems that serial records aren't available but I was told it was pre 1897.

It also has a 14/1 and a 13 on the barrels. not sure what this signifies as this is my first double - any information gratefully accepted

Welcome to the wonderful world of British doubles!
Those are still British proof marks. The crown with the R is a reproof mark and when it was reproofed, it measured as a 12 gauge with 70mm (2 3/4") chambers.
The 14/1 indicates that one bore measured (9" from the breech) between .701" - .709" when it was originally proofed.
The 13 indicates that the other bore measured (again, 9" from the breech) between .710" - .718" when it was originally proofed.
From this info, you can determine how much material has been removed from the barrels if you are able to measure the internal barrel diameters. This will not tell you what the wall thickness is, which is the most important piece of information. Pictures would help a lot. There should be more marks indicating what the bores measured at the time of reproof and they will be metric.

Posting pics is easy to this site.

Step 1) Google �imgbb� free web hosting site.

Step 2) Click on the �start uploading� blue tab in the middle of the screen.

Step 3) choose which file you have the pic(s) saved to.

Step 4) select the pic you want to post.

Step 5) hit the �green upload� tab.

Step 6) click on �embed codes� select �bbcode thumbnail link�

Step7) click on �copy�

Step 8) paste the copied link onto the reply box of this site, then hit submit.





They appears in thumbnail size, just click onto the pic to view full size. This tutorial works with your computer or with, what I�m using Apple product iPad and or iPhone. It�s fee and you don�t have to save pics to imgbb. Easy Peazy...

Thanks I�ll try to get some done today. There is and 18.2 on one barrel and an 18.4 on the other. I assume these are the metric barrel sizes.

Yes, the 18.2 & 18.4 are metric bore sizes. These convert to 18.2 = 0.717" & 18.4 = 0.724". These would have been put on at the re-proof.
Note also on the original proof the in-between sizes, as the 14/1 were not used prior to 1887 so this gun should date to between 1887-1904.

William & Powell were real gunmakers, not the more common retailers of others work. Overall the quality of their products is quite high and they made a significant number of guns. One of their more significant patents was what they called their �Simplex� action. In it the locking system was similar to the rotary bolt of a LC Smith decades later. Simple and strong and avoided having to pay royalties to Scott for licensing the Purdey bolt.

All records for the company were destroyed by the Luftwaffe in WW2 so no need to even hope.

Usually pretty nice guns from this maker. This firm now owns the name http://www.wrichardsguns.co.uk/ but have no records. Williams & Powell, Liverpool are sometimes confused with another maker with a similar name of William Powell, Birmingham. Lagopus�..

Damned Germans!! i'll try to post some pictures later today following the instructions above.

Here are some pictures :

[img:left]https://ibb.co/BsChFZy[/img]
[img:left]https://ibb.co/n1G6dVr[/img]
[img:left]https://ibb.co/PYcZ4WQ[/img]
[img:left]https://ibb.co/JQ70LbJ[/img]
[img:left]https://ibb.co/R9VNBwc[/img]
[img:left]https://ibb.co/rfNztnf[/img]