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Originally Posted By: gunmaker
Ted, do you have any resonance when filing or sawing with that vise mounted as you have?


No. As noted above, there is a 1" hole in the top flange, under the vise, tapped for a pipe plug. The mount is filled to within a 1/2 inch or so of the top with spent lead shot, purchased at my club, and a few quarts of 30 weight oil.

Totally dead blow. But, I think it was overkill, as there was little to no harmonic going on prior to that. I used it for a while without, but, planned on that right from the beginning.

jOe thinks you get a Wilton from Lowe's. That would be cute if it were true.
You get a Wilton from a tool jobber. Lowe's has boxes with the name Wilton on them so idiots like him think they can run with the big dogs.



Best,
Ted

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I'm not sold on the idea that a Wilton is the only good vise. In fact, the guys over at garage journal forum (who collect, restore and use vises like members of this board collect guns) seem to mostly put Wilton behind Reed and Parker. That may just be because Wilton is so popular. Like Parker or Fox guys wanting to look down on guys who shoot a Browning or whatever. Sometimes if it's popular, the enthusiasts automatically dismiss it. On the other hand, the popularity of Wilton could be because they continued to manufacture vises in the states well beyond the time Parker, Reed, and a bunch of others stopped.

Regardless, it seems like Reed and Parker in the states and Record in the UK are the top of the pile, with Wilton being the most popular and most readily available in the states.

In terms of weight, is does seem like the concensus is bigger=better up to a point. Jack Rowe (cue the know it alls who will say Jack Rowe was a hack...) says that a vise of at least 4" is best. Likewise, when you look at videos of shop tours of purdey, Holland & Holland, etc or the small shops currently making best quality guns, they all have beefy vises on the bench. I have not seen any on an island post, except some post vises in blacksmith shops. It seems to me one issue would supporting the gun while working on it. There is essentially no reasonble way to have a horse in place under the buttstock when the action is in the vise. That seems like a real problem.

As for versa vise, engravers vise, etc, there are obviously times when a big vise isn't necessary, and a smaller vise designed for a specific job is better.

It's nonsense to argue about whether a Wilton 800s is 'better' or 'worse' than a versa vise.
That would be like arguing that a towtruck is better than a sports car. It all depends of course.

As for the angle of approach, I am going to drop my bench down a few inches to address that. I might even need to get a step when trying to file, etc, perfectly square.




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I made a horse out of a drummers throne for getting away from the bench. Works fine.


A.M. Little Bespoke Gunmakers LLC.
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What do you mean? Do you mean the stock rests on throne (is that what common folk would call a stool?) When the action is clamped in the vise?


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Send me a text at the number in my signature, Ill respond with a picture.


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Jim,
There is a point at which you are no longer in the realm of small vise work. It happens to any guy the first day that he installs a vise in his shop. I recently rebuilt a Stahl folder at work, and pressed 18 bearings out of the boxings with my vise. I had access to a small press, but, the Wilton is the better tool for the task, because the bar is keyed, it was rigidly mounted, and was at the correct height. The key holds lateral movement of the movable jaw to less than .005. The Reeds, Parkers and any other square bar vises will not have that feature. That means you will stop, open, reposition, and constantly check and recheck to see that your push remains square to the work. They are also old, and likely to be sloppy, at this point in time. The old vises were blacksmith vises, to a large degree, but, the Wiltons have far more precision built into the task of moving the jaw in and out. You can do precision work on the Wiltons that is tough, or impossible on an older vise with some wear, and, you can do blacksmith work if need be.
Ive owned both. The Wilton makes most tasks simple. It is also difficult to find older vises that dont have a bunch of lash from wear and abuse. I dont want to turn the handle 3/4 of a turn in or out before I get a reaction on the movable jaw. That makes it too hard to position the work. I have cut new nuts for old vises with buttress threads, and while it improves things, it is not like a new Wilton.
The guys that restore and collect vises have their own reasons for doing that. It may not be to have the best all round tool up to any task that comes your way. Nostalgia doesnt pay the bills. The sports car and tow truck analogy is way off track, by the way. The bigger vise has more material on the jaw surface, spreading it out over a larger area, and using less force to hold the work than a smaller vise does. The bigger vise gives you options the smaller one cant. The big vise can do big tasks, and is useful for detail work as well. The little vise is useful for detail work, and not up to bigger tasks. It isnt an accident that you dont see any Versa vises in those gunmaker videos. I cant argue with Jacks assessment that 4 is minimum, either. But, Id say not a Sears Craftsman 4, and if I have to explain the difference between consumer and industrial 4 vises, I might as well be at the beach.

Looks like our homeboy jOe be a Lowes kinda playa. We should have known.

If you want one vise in your shop, you would be hard pressed to beat a round bar Wilton. I like the 500, because it does not have the external cuts on either jaw like the 600 and 800 models, has a 5 jaw, has adequate mass, and is smooth on top. Is is built of ductile iron, keyed, sealed, lubed, and has a functioning company supporting warranty and parts supply. The best time to buy one was 20-30 years past, the second best time is right now, before the next price increase.
What is not to like?

Best,
Ted

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I don't disagree with any of that, except that it seems like an old vise is sort of like an old gun. It is more likely that an old Parker gun is going to have some problems, but it's hard to find a new gun that was made to the same level of craftsmanship. The Wilton vises still made in the USA are probably the closest to it. After all, your vise is nearly 30 years old now.

As for big vs small, I also agree that the big bench vise is more versatile and should be the center point of the work bench. But there is also a reason that engravers, checkerers, etc have specialized vises. The analogy probably should have been a crew cab f250 vs a sports car /mini van/ sedan / Jeep / 4 wheeler etc. There are not many things that an f250 can't do, although for some tasks a specialized car might do better.

I'm almost finished with my Parker restoration, and I'm going to get my Wilton 6.4" Tradesman restored next. It's not to the standard of a 500, 600, etc but I doubt I'll be able to tell the difference. After a decade or so of service at Seacor Marine, it's still pretty dang smooth.

What do you mean by a keyed bar?

Also, a 4" craftsman is what I'm replacing... No need to convince me that they are different animals.


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This:



There is a key that holds the movable jaw square to the rigid jaw. If youve ever had a vise that dog walked on the way in and out, this is what it takes to cure that.

If you already have two vises that you are going to clean up and put into service, that is great. I have a hunting partner that has had a big vise, sitting loose on the floor of his garage for a decade, never got around to mounting it, and he uses it just like that. I wouldnt do that, but, Im not him. When he needs something rebuilt, he brings it over here. New vises are spendy. I got sick of going to auctions and seeing beat up century old vises sell for 7/8ths the cost of something new. So, I bought new. $390 was a tough nut to crack, just like $1100 would be, now.

Ive never heard anyone say these three things. My vise is too big, my air compressor makes too much air, or, my shop has too much electrical power available, and the lights are too damn bright.

Best,
Ted

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Y'all got me to thinking about my vises, big and small. My big vise in my farm shop is a COLUMBIAN #504 1/2. They are sold by Wilton now, and sell new for about $800. Don't know if Wilton made them when mine was made, it's very old, and "WILTON" is not on the vise anywhere.

https://www.trick-tools.com/504-12M3-Columbian-Machinist-Bench-Vise-10104_7458

Took a pic of it on the "bench", but can't post pics anymore on here due to photo bucket finally catching up with my free usage. I pulled up an ad for a new COLUMBIAN and it looks exactly like my old one. I couldn't farm without it, or my old anvil. Have another cheaper vise, about a 4 1/2", with a swivel base, mounted on my fuel trailer that we pull to the field. If I need to hold something to repair it in the field, it gets used. Not a fine, expensive vise because it often gets rained on. But, very handy for field repairs.

I have an old post vise in my gun shop, along with a woodworker's vise mounted to the front of my heavy bench, two vises for my drill press, a little vise that clamps to a counter edge, and a couple other smaller ones like hand vises and pin vises.

I'm pretty well covered in my needs for vises.

SRH


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Stan,
Send me the pic, Ill get it up for you. Email in profile. Im pretty sure Wilton acquired the Columbian name, back in the day.

I have a friend that is in your boat, all his vises (many!) came from his ancestors, save the Kurt vise that is on his Bridgeport vertical mill. Those are spendy, too.

He took the mount idea for my vise one step further. He cut the concrete in his shop floor, and installed another steel mount in a hole he dug where the concrete was. That mount, and the one that mounts his vise, have identical twin drilled and tapped flanges, and he tied the bottom one into the concrete floor, and filled the hole with concrete. Now, to swing the vise, he removes the bolts that hold it to the lower mount (he calls the lower mount a sarcophagus) rotates the vise, and bolts it back down. The advantage is the swing is located far away from the vise proper, and held in place with 6 1 grade 8 stainless bolts, instead of two small levers on a typical swivel base. I seem to think that his Columbian vise, mounted this way, had zero harmonics, perhaps the mount under the floor is better at absorbing them.
That vise was his Grandfathers. He has wealth in vises. That is the friend who would happily buy my Wilton for more than I paid for it.

Best,
Ted

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