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Argo44 Online Content OP
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Builder has just purchased this Reilly SxS 28 gauge shotgun, hammer gun, side-lever, SN 25449 (per my chart dated to Autumn 1883. Address on the ribs "E.M. Reilly & Co., 16 late 502 New Oxford Street, London & rue Scribe, Paris." Here is the description:

-- 26" Damascus barrels
-- 6lbs. 1/2 oz.
-- Modern dimensions (Builder explains that it fits him, which is in the ball park of 1 1/2 x 2 1/2".
-- Feels like a very solid gun.
-- 9" of evenly tapered choke with .005" restriction on both barrels.
-- The bores are .560 up to the beginning of the choke.
-- The chambers are 2 3/4".
-- Minimum wall thickness is over .035" and near the end of the chambers it is over .130". So lots of thickness all over hence the heavy barrels.
-- It came with a pad but Builder has the original steel butt plate.

Here are some pictures with commentary.

The short barrels are unusual on a Reilly, even a small gauge one. There are 26" barrels on Reilly Double rifles. This may be a "sample gun" similar to the .410 #25851 posted previously. In my database there is not another existing Reilly 28 gauge shotgun with original barrels. One owned previously by Terry Buffum #26517 had replacement 28" Damascus barrels; there is one for sale #25741 on the internet but it has such a confounding assortment of odd things about it that I don't trust its provenance.

I rarely if ever have seen a pistol grip on a Reilly shotgun stock....he used them on rifles.



Side-lever.


Barrel flats and Action flats: (No "not for ball"...and it should be there for an 1883 shotgun)


Forearm with 1872 Anson patent use number 7757 and stock


Proof marks...."30" would indicate 30 bore in preliminary proofs which should be .538" - it is now .560"


Address on Rib. The Address of New Oxford Street Building changed in November 1881. However, Reilly continued to use 502 on some guns and advertisements for another couple of years. I've never seen both addresses on the same rib, however.


Labels. Reilly continued to use 502 New Oxford Street on his labels after November 1881 when the numbers changed. I cannot find 16 New Oxford Street labels until rue Scribe disappeared from his labels in July-Aug 1885. The medals won in the 1867 Paris Exposition were reappearing on labels and advertisements about this time. It's interesting that the case was originally labeled for #25074 - scratched out and replaced with 25449...wonder if 25074 was also a 28 gauge?


Neat gun and unique.

Things make me wonder if it were originally a rifle.
1) No "not for ball" proof stamp which it should have in 1883.
2) pistol grip stock;
3) weight of barrel - The barrels weigh 2 lbs 14 oz. + plus that .135 thickness at the breech.
4) 26" barrels
5) 2 3/4" chambers (which likely were enlarged and the gun not reproofed).
6) 30 bore stamp.
7) weight of the gun.

But, on the other hand
1) the label clearly states 2 drams of powder for 5/8 oz of shot...unless that were for the original 25074 gun.
2) choke bores and original serial numbers. - no evidence of reproof.
3) No evidence of top sights.
4) A cartridge in 30 bore..... .538 caliber would be pretty big unless it were a pistol cartridge and this was originally a "Rook Rifle."


Last edited by Argo44; 11/08/19 12:32 AM.

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No need for the NFB mark if the gun was not proofed with any choke. The little choke there is could easily have been introduced when the bores were lapped out.
Top rib could easily have been replaced.
Could obviously have been ordered as a heavy 28b but I think it unlikely.
The card label is for the original gun and has been adapted for the new occupant of the case.
My money would be on a 'Rook Rifle' which has been comprehensively converted but never reproofed.

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It's a "Sample gun" alright...."Sample" of buyer beware.

Sounds like it was honed to death...

Oh well it lives on in the mind of an O'reily freAk.

"9 inches of tapered choke"....

I'd hate to be the Rookie.

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That gun's grip is a pistol, for sure, but with lines much more like a rifle pistol grip than a shotgun pistol grip. The way it extends downward, far past the lower line of the buttstock (in profile), highly suggests a Rigby or Henry style rifle grip.

Also the presence of, what appears to be, original sling bases may be another tipoff. I've rarely seen original sling bases on English shotguns, if ever.

SRH


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Easy to get burnt if you get too infatuated....

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I have a nearly unused Williams and Powell double rifle which uses a 28 gauge casing. It's proofmarks show a 30 where you have the same, and a 29 closer to the barrel flats. I assume that these are the gauges for the lands and groove. A slug of the perfect bore shows a land diameter of .547" and .568" for the groove.

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Interesting Daryl. I was speculating that 30 bore is = .538 caliber. .538 cal is close enough to .54 cal....given the difference in the way the British measure bores as opposed to Americans (.577 British = .58 US). There were a number of .54 cartridges around in the mid-1880's....in fact I think Sharps made a short .54 carbine cartridge around that period (not the long Buffalo gun cartridge of course), and Reilly was a dealer for Sharps Carbines at the time.

Last edited by Argo44; 11/08/19 07:23 PM.

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From the 1868 Proof Rules:

30 Bore - 0.537" Bore Diameter
30 Bore - 0.527" Bullet Diameter
30 Bore - 1st Proof - 715 Grain Bullet(same from 24 bore to 50 bore)
30 Bore - 1st Proof Powder Charge-205 grs.-7 1/2 oz.drs.(same 24-50)
30 Bore - Service Bullet Weight(Ball) - 536 Grains(same 24 bore -50)
30 Bore - Service Powder Charge - 68 grs. - 2 1/2 oz.drs.(same 24 -+)

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

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Also, keep in mind the 30 stamp does not necessarily give an "Exact" bore size. At proof, which would have been the final proof I believe, not the preliminary, the bores would have accepted a 30 gage (0.537") plug gage but not a 29 gauge (0.543") one.

My understanding is there was that .003" difference in the Springfield & Enfield rifled muskets but the balls were basically interchangeable. There was built-in clearance for the "Minie" ball to slide down the more easily until they were terribly fouled & the skirt expanded to seal the bore. The .003" was of little consequence in that case.


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After looking at records, it's pretty clear that a .52 or .54 caliber cartridge, whether pistol or rifle, is not a "Rook Rifle" bullet. Here is a Reilly Advertisement on the rook rifles they were selling in 1884 - .295, .300, .320 and .380. A .52 - . 54 caliber is a serious slug.



This 1882 ad indicates Reilly did use pistol grips on his rook rifles:




Last edited by Argo44; 11/09/19 01:29 AM.

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