doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com When do you not need an FFL?

I'm pretty familiar with an example where a seller knew an FFL transfer was not required, but they insisted it was shipped to a dealer. On the receiving end, in a different state, the dealer just handed it over. If it's interesting enough, it's okay to jump through some hoops, but most times I'd just move on and not give it a second thought.

This is proof that even some BATF Agents do not understand the law. The law is the law. It is passed by Congress, and signed into law by the President. The law is printed word for word in the Congressional Record. Terms such as "Antique Firearm" are specifically defined. You will not find anyplace within the law that states what this misinformed agent told you.

But if this was indeed true, it would certainly add great importance to maintaining and confirming original finish... as if that would even be possible.

By the way, did this agent happen to photograph your Bound Ledger Books while he was conducting his inspection? I'm just curious about how prevalent that particular illegal behavior might be.

The 256 Newton rifle is a Modern firearm in NYS and should be transfered on a 4473/NiCS.
CAliber has nothing to do with it.
NYS followes Fed regs and deffinitions when dealing with Long guns

A pre 1899 12ga shotgun in NYS is recognized as an 'Antique Status' firearm under Fed Regs. and does not need to be transfered with a 4473/Nics (though most FFL will require that paperwork to do so, their house,,their rules).

Handguns chambered for a cartridge 'No longer manufactured in the USA or available in normal trade channals' are not subject to Registration on a NYS Pistol Permit.

That statement is often thought to mean Antique Status' handguns of pre 1899 mfg (old and odd calibers) but it also includes Modern Mfg (post 1899) mfg handguns also of odd chamberings.
If the odd chambered, no ammo around handgun happens to be a Post 1899 mfg , it would still require a 4473/Nics as it's a modern firearm (Fed reg). There's no regualtion about lack of ammo gets you a free paperwork ride on a purchase.

The grey area is the wording 'Not available in normal trade channels'
With the availablilty of the internet, most anything is available and a UPS shipment away from either you or an FFL these days. Old stock ammo is still out there, so the chances of nothing being available are slim.
It really comes down to if you have some in your possession along with the handgun I'd think, but I'm not lawyer.
That's what they've done with the muzzle loading handguns. No registration needed. 'Unless the necessary components to load and fire the handgun are in possession of the owner'.

As a former FFL holder I was advised it was my responsibility(and legal obligation) when transferring a firearm to comply with Federal Law and the local law within the recipients State/Local jurisdiction. The examples of confusion with New York give you and idea of why I would prefer to ship to a dealer in New York rather than direct. I operated in Wisconsin
but had clients in Illinois. Several Ill. sub jurisdictions had their own more restrictive requirements. For Illinois purchasers my policy was. Drive to my shop, fill in the 4473.-Back Ground Check,if approved, come back 48+hours later (Ill. requirement)pick up the gun, complete extra section on 4473. take the gun away. - OR - Let me ship it to your local FFL for $25 shipping charge