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#520508 - 08/11/18 01:44 PM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: Argo44]
Argo44 Offline
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1889 - Reilly exhibits at Tour Eiffel World's Fair


Per the 18 September 1889 edition of "Morning Post," Reilly did exhibit at the 1889 Paris Exposition Universelle, the "Tour Eiffel" World's Fair and may have won a silver medal (the article is unclear but implies all English gun makers won at least silver medals). The historical narrative will be changed above.

If he won a medal he never featured it on his case labels, - it was not on the post 1898 label that feature medals from the 1873 Vienna, 1876 Philadelphia, 1878 Paris or 1885 London fairs, or in the few ads which can be found after 1889. (On the other hand, of all the World's Fair medals displayed on all sorts of labels, stationary, ads etc., the one you DON'T see ever is the 1889 fair medals - can't say why that is.

In fact newspaper ads just dried up after 1886. From 1887-1892 Reilly's guns are mention in the UK Press virtually every week winning shooting contests and being given away as prizes. However, without ads or articles to put the wins into context, it's hard to know what was going on with the firm. (Edit: There are ads right up to May 1912 - just can't access them for the moment).. If anyone stumbles onto advertisements for Reilly after 1890, please let me know the link. Also there are precious few original Case Labels from that time period of you get hold of one.

.....18 September 1889 "Morning Post." From the article one infers that all British gun makers won medals.


.....PAGE 152 of the official 1889 Paris Exhibition Catalog:
https://archive.org/details/internationalex02commgoog


Per this advertisement from the 1889 Exposition catalog, Grubb of Philadelphia was still his USA Agent - had been since 1868:


Edited by Argo44 (10/15/18 08:30 PM)
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#520617 - 08/13/18 04:54 PM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: Argo44]
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Sep 1857 - Autumn 1860 - "Reilly, Gun Maker" becomes "E.M. Reilly & Co.," becomes "Gun Manufacturer"


Again this is for the Reilly historian (this gets pretty nit-picking) though it may bear on dating serial numbers and certainly on dating labels: After looking at every ad I can find the "New Short History" above for the period 1857-1860 has been modified - I've tried to keep that history as simple as possible concentrating on serial numbers, because really gyrations of the firm at the time is pretty academic. Nevertheless the actual story of the company gets a little complicated and will be reflected mostly in ads and case labels. There were several distinct events during this short time frame as follows:

1). Sep 1857 - JC retired. The firm continued to be known as "Reilly, Gun Maker" (two words) for almost two years after JC's departure:
..........02 Sep 1857 edition of "London Daily News,"


2) Nov-Dec 1858 - for a very short time in newspaper advertisements the firm was "Reilly, Manufacturer."
..........11 Dec 1858 "Illustrated London News"


Yet the firm was known as "Reilly, Gun Maker" in most long-lead-time publications:


3) Jan 1859 - 315 Oxford St. opened and was identified as "Reilly's Armoury House."

First Newspaper Ad for "Reilly's Armoury House": 16 January 1859 , "Bell's Life" - these ads only for Amoury House bombarded the Newspapers. They continue to be posted well into 1861.


4) Apr-Jun 1859 - "Reilly & Co, Gunmakers" (one word) was used for a short tine for 502 New Oxford St. . "Reilly & Co." however, was used to describe the company in several collateral publications at the time in 1859. And "Reilly & Co." was used on into 1861 in conjunction with Amoury House.

..........02 April 1859, "Illustrated London News."


. . . . Book written 1859, published 1860. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Ad for a rifling system 10/09/59 Volunteer's Services Gazette


Edited by Argo44 (10/14/18 11:15 AM)
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#520620 - 08/13/18 05:46 PM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: Argo44]
Argo44 Offline
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5) Fall 1859 - EM Reilly & Co., "Gunmakers" (one word) was used for the company which ran both Armoury house (315) and 502 New Oxford St, a description which continued up to summer 1860. For sure "EM Reilly, Gunmaker" (one word) appears in some mid-1859 long lead-time advertisements - and in some newspapers dueling ads were run for "Reilly's Armoury House" and "E.M Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, branch establishment 315 Oxford Street" in the same issue after Fall 1859:

..........26 October 1859 Sporting Life:


Believe the case labels for 502 New Oxford St. from about September 1859 (when E.M. Reilly & Co. first appeared) to Summer 1860 when "Gun Manufacturers" appeared must have looked like this with the traditional sketch of 502 New Oxford Street,and "E.M. Reilly & Co., Gun Maker" (two words):



For a short time in 1859-early 1860 there may have been a specific and different case label associated with Armoury House (This is a reproduction but has to be a reproduction of something - never seen it actually in a case to confirm); From about 1876 - 1890 Reilly did have a slightly different case label for 315 later 277 than for 502 later 16; And there was a separate 315 series used mostly for pistols):



For long lead-time publications such as Bradshaw and the Red book, both "Gun Makers" and "Gunmakers" appeared simultaneously for 1860:



6) 01 August 1860 - First newspaper ads appear describing E.M Reilly as "Gun Manufacturer." (singular)

. . . . . 28 July 1860, "Sporting Life" - Gunmaker. . . . . . . . . . . . 04 Aug 1860, "Sporting Life"..Gun Manufacturer (singular)


One supposes then that the classic Reilly 1860's Case Label, which continued with variants up to 1898 with "EM Reilly & Co., Gun Manufacturers," could not have appeared until August 1860 (per newspaper ads below) if you're trying to date your case. The Sanskrit script reads .. Maharaj Pratap Singh ji Solarkar or Sarkar Palamau. Vaishak..(i.e April/May) Sudi 12 means 12 of April/ May..Sanwat 1937 means Hindu calendar Vikrami Sanwat 1937. that is 137 years old. 200 Silvers rupees paid to the seller along with some presentation. I.e. the gun was resold in India in 1880 for 200 silver rupees to Maharajah Pratap Singh ji, Sarkar (lord) of Palamau.



Long lead-time ads for 1861 identified Reilly as "Gun Manufacturers."

..........January 1861 ,"Broyles Court Guide"


However, "Gun Manufacturers" really did not appear in the normal press ads until April 1861, whatever that means.

..........14 April 1861, "Bell's Life"


All this works out as a check on the above Serial Number-Date list.
-- It means that "EM REILLY & CO." might not have appeared until October 1859. As a check, on the above list the first extant gun with that name on its rib is 11115 and on the chart it indeed lands in the latter half of 1859.
-- It also means that there may be a gun somewhere with "Reilly, 315 Oxford Street" dating from January 1859 - September 1859 with a different label.....the reproduction label with "Reilly Amoury House" came from someplace.


Edited by Argo44 (10/30/19 10:23 PM)
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#520928 - 08/17/18 05:52 PM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: Argo44]
Argo44 Offline
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1898-1912 - Reilly's labels and the Vienna World's Fair medals


By the way the fourth medal on the post 1898 Reilly label that couldn't be identified:



I'm almost 100% sure it was for the 1873 Vienna World's Fair as speculated above - I've seen enough of them on all sorts of UK wares. This was the medal given for "Innovation."



There's only one problem: I don' t think Reilly was there. I could be wrong but can't find another explanation. That's definitely Franz Joseph on the "Heads" side (Kaiser of Austria; Kaiser of Bohemia - etc; Kaiser of Hungary). So did his kids or managers or whomever, after his death, start playing games with history? Oh well, people get jobs by faking their resumes these days.....nothing's changed.

If anyone has that label, what does a magnifying glass say? Was there another Vienna exposition in the 1880's by chance? Thanks.

Official 1873 Vienna Exposition catalog - list of UK gunmakers exhibiting:


Here is the 1889 Universelle catalog entry for Alex. Henry with the medal (with the "tails" side showing the medal for excellence in manufacture). Henry was at Vienna!



Edited by Argo44 (12/16/18 10:37 AM)
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#520935 - 08/17/18 06:57 PM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: Argo44]
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Do any Reilly records survive?
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#520941 - 08/17/18 08:05 PM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: Argo44]
Argo44 Offline
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No...The company went bankrupt in 1912. The name was subsequently bought. I think this line is the best one can find...IMHO...unless Sally has something. That "New Short History" on P.17 is darned good and about all a gun owner-collector needs to know about the company (compare it to what was being put out by auction houses and even in prestigious magazines and journals recently). And the list of dates/SN's also on P. 17 is about as accurate as can be possible..until more evidence - guns. labels, ads - appears..

This started out as a lark 3 years ago when I bought my double. I've spent a lot of time in the middle of no-where since then and had nothing else to do but research the gun. And I modestly feel it has brought the name of a prominent British gun-maker out of the shadows.



Edited by Argo44 (08/19/18 03:37 PM)
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#521049 - 08/19/18 03:57 PM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: Argo44]
Argo44 Offline
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=================================================== ========================================
1922 - Riggs advertises the acquisition of Reilly


More bits: Charles Riggs bought Reilly's name allegedly (per the internet) in 1917. I've never confirmed that date. However, it looks like he didn't actually start using it until August 1922. (if he bought it in 1917, why not use it then?). Doesn't really matter because those Riggs-Reillys are not Reillys. But here is the first ad - by the end of 1922, a mere five months later, Riggs' ads featuring the Reilly name tailed off.

..........18 Aug 1922 "Chelmsford Chronicle" (Riggs did not advertise in big London papers like Reilly did in his hey-day.)


By the end of 1922, the headline of "Reilly" by Charles Riggs had dwindled and disappeared in ads by the end of the year

..........17 Nov 1922, "Chelmsford Chronicle"


It looks like that"1924" catalog...actually advertises a 1922 sale because of the wording of the announcement:



Here are the Riggs "Reilly"'s found so for - These are not "Reilly"'s - in the "New Short History" I've speculated that they are built by BSA...only because Riggs had a long relationship with BSA selling their guns and motorcycles; one of these was for sale in America not long ago for a good bit of money - they make 200-400 £ in UK.

134183 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16ga. SxS shotgun. BLNE
136535 - E.M. Reilly..not mentioned. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE.
138279 - E.M. Reilly (address not mentioned). 20bore Shotgun SxS. BLE
140415 - E.M. Reilly of London. 16bore shotgun SxS. 30" steel barrels
140451 - E.M. Reilly, London. 16bore Shotgun SxS. (Charles Riggs, post 1917)
144939 - E.M. Reilly, London, 12 bore Shotgun SxS BLNE. 28 barrels.
146242 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London; 12bore. Top lever hammer gun. Pistol grip stock.
150570 - E.M. Reilly & Co., London. 12ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock non-ejector.


Edited by Argo44 (10/12/18 12:00 PM)
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#521101 - 08/20/18 01:02 PM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: Argo44]
Argo44 Offline
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============================================ ===================================
1860 - 1898 - Mainline Reilly label 315 (277) and 502 (16)


I mentioned above that it looks like when 315 Oxford Street opened (Armoury House), Reilly had two different labels for his cases:

-- This allegedly is a reproduction of the Armoury House label. It has "Fusils a Bascule" on it...principle establishment at 502 New Oxford Street, etc. It was possibly used from Jan 1859 when 315 opened until Summer 1860 when the classic "E.M. Reilly & Co"; "Gun Manufacturers" appeared.


-- From Jan 1859 to Fall 1859, the main-line label would have continued to be the traditional one with "Reilly, Gun Maker," "Fusils a Bascule," the drawing of 502 New Oxford Street, and the 1851 and 1855 medals.


-- This label with the 502 New Oxford Street building but without "Fusils a Bascule" and with E.M REILLY, GUN MAKER, and the 1851 and 1855 World's Fair medals featured on the traditional Reilly label from 1855-59 may have been used as the main-line Reilly label from Fall 1859 until "Gun Manufacturers" appeared in August 1860.


This dichotomy in labels with different labels for 315 and 502 may have lasted from January 1859 to Summer 1860 and the arrival of the classic E.M. Reilly & Co. label:

From summer of 1860 to 1898, 502 New Oxford Street (later 16) had this principle label...with variations. E.M REILLY & Co., Gun Manufacturers. The 1867 medals mostly disappeared after the fall of Napoleon III Sep 1870. Sometimes the label had 315 as a "branch establishment," sometimes with both 315 and 2 rue Sribe, sometimes with only 2 rue scribe. But always with the scroll work below the bottom tier of writing and usually with a double lined border and usually with scolloped corners. These labels are from guns with original cases which I've dated to the early 1860's, 70's, 80's and there is one possibly in the 90's (not pictured because the picture of the label is so tiny).



From the limited number of labels I've collected after about Fall 1860, 315 (later 277) doesn't appear again on its own on a label until about 1876. After 1876 the layout of the 315 label was very similar to the 502 label above, except that there is no scroll work below the bottom level of print and no double lined internal border.



In addition 315 appears to have had a special label for revolvers in the early 1880's - here are two examples:



There were some other variants...with "Gun & Rifle Manufactures" and on a couple of them mention of royalty....I've pictured them already but it looks like the above were the mainstream Reilly labels after summer 1860 until the 1898 "4 medal" label appeared.

c1876 - 1868 medals & King of Portugal.......c1884 - the three Kings...................c1892 - re-labeled after the gun was redone


This doesn't prove much...it may help if you see a gun that doesn't have a SN displayed or something....but just interesting for the historian...and if you're buying a reproduction, get the one with the scolloped corners...oh wait...they aren't offered.....Yet.


Edited by Argo44 (07/18/20 10:18 PM)
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#521416 - 08/24/18 06:16 PM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: Argo44]
reb87 Offline
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My EM Reilly 17552 Click on the link for an album on my google pics.

Can anyone tell me how to embed my google pics here? I can embed them on other forums but not here.

EM Reilly 17552 pics

[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sj54OK...RA=w438-h328-no[/img]
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#521438 - 08/25/18 05:07 AM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: Argo44]
Argo44 Offline
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17552 (1872)


You'll have to use a photo hosting site. I use http://jpgbox.com/submit.html. It's free. Create an account and it's easy to use. 1) select the picture from your desk top; 2) upload it. 3) select the resolution. 4) copy the link and post.

Others used Imgur, and there are a couple of other sites as well. Dave was going to look at hosting images here at one point because of the photobucket scam that resulted in a great deal of history being squirrellel away for ransom.

I'll post the photos for Reb....Reilly underlever hammer gun shotgun. 13 bore? (looks bigger than that!). SN 17552 (numbered during the first quarter of 1872 per the chart above) with E.M. Reilly & Co., Oxford Street, London on the rib - and what a neat looking shotgun. What shells do you use in it? I see two London proof marks that were around since the 1600's...assume this is Black Powder proof, and it looks like it hasn't been re-proofed. Edit: Originally a pin-fire...

[/URL

[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/54831_583x768/]
















Edited by Argo44 (07/18/20 10:15 PM)
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