doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ramrod Saga

Shooting my one and only 16 gauge SxS muzzle loader (previously discussed), the antique European walnut ramrod slipped out of the gun while it was on the gun cart, got caught between the ground and axle and snapped. I was sick. I took it to Ben Sims out in the Valley, a really outstanding gun restorer who said he could fix it. Left it with him:



I was in a quandary on a ramrod. My barrels are more 13-14 bore having been honed...about .705." A Track-of-the-Wolf 12 bore ramrod would be too big; a 20 bore too small. I remembered what Stan said, dug up a couple of old hickory 1/2" dowel rods I'd been intending to use to fix a chair.....wife threw the chair out. Then found a 5/16" flange nut .625" across the flange in my parts box and an old door knob.... Screwed on the flange nuts, fitted the door knob and Voila a useable ramrod - stout too.



Then thinking about the ergonomics of loading a double barrel shotgun I thought I could shorten the process if I could ram both barrels at once, I concocted this jury-rigged double ramrod and tried it out. It worked, but not easily. I won't make my fortune with it:



I finally discovered Track-of-the-Wolf made a 13 bore ramrod 675" in diameter on the face that would fit the Reilly and ordered it. Quite nice. And Ben got the old one back to me repaired. It will stay in the house. Still Stan's idea of an old door knob is neat and I'll keep the one I made as back-up. (from top to bottom
- Original,
- ToW rod,
- Home-made Stan rod.

What ingenuity, well done, what fun

Excellent, Gene. The one with the doorknob on it looks just like mine, except for the flange nut.

Its a good feeling to be able to help. You would really like the holder I described for the loading rod, that pushes into the ground. Really handy for clays or doves. P.M. me if you need any more info about it, and I'll send you my phone number.

Best, SRH

Thanks Stan. I have a hollow metal leg from an old folding table that fits the Stan-rod to a "T." I'm going to cut it at an angle, weld up the bottom and I'll have what you've described.

By the way, I used to have a bunch of military blanket-gun slips I had made out in Afghanistan to send Enfields, Sniders and Martini-Henry's (Pashtun Copies) home for the guys from the APO. Gradually over the years I've given most away. Wife stepped in with an old moth-eaten wool blanket and made me several....she calls them "gun-cosy's". Oh well, I needed them - and they certainly have more character than the plastic Dick's sporting goods slips, for short trips to the range:

And by the way, I'm trying to design a wad/overshot card dispenser that'll alleviate the "searching in my pocket for the right wad" syndrome. I think a tube the size of the card or wad with a spring at the bottom and the right cap, cut out so you can thumb the wad or card onto the muzzle - sort of like a baccarat card dealing machine - shouldn't be too hard to make.

Shot sequence - double barrel muzzleloader shotgun with such a card/wad dispenser:
1) flick cap of preloaded tube and pour powder1 - flick cap pour powder2
2) tumb flick two wads onto the barrels and push them in
3) Ram1 - Ram2 (or if you have my double ramrod..."Ram1"
4) flick cap of preloaded shot and pour shot1 - flick cap pour shot2
5) thumb flick overshot card1 then 2 and press down
6) Ram1 - Ram2
7) thumb flick 3/8" wad soaked in olive oil (Skychief load) 1 then 2
8) Ram1 - Ram2
9) cap1 then cap2....be nice to have a double capper to cap both nipples at the same time.

First time I've seen dishwasher silverware baskets put to use as tool holders. Pretty good idea.

Best, SRH

1967 Triumph. When I got back from Vietnam in November 1968 I immediately bought a 1867 Triumph TT Special and put lights on it and baffles in the pipes. I'd ridden a Triump at Ft. Bragg with a bunch of buddies, most rode BSA's - at that time you rode Limey's or Harleys and never the twain could meet - you even dressed differently - not "Mods" and "Rockers" like in UK but we wore tight fitting leathers and the Harley guys...well-you know. I upgraded the TT Special with a Sonny Rout 790cc kit (you had to block the oil feed to the cams), put in a Harmon-Collins 9-6 combo cam, lightened the rockers and pushrods, etc....and kept it all stock looking. The next year the Triumph Trident, BSA Rocket-3, Kawasaki-3, Honda-4 appeared and my "Q-ship" street rod wasn't so hot anymore.

Brother gave the model to me (a standard 1967 Bonneville) for Christmas a few years ago....wife dropped it....I need to repair it.



Note Kick start...twin shoe front breaks, right foot shift, no speedo, only tach (This is not my bike...and those pipes aren't quite right....I'll look for my own photos)

The Pickenons will be picken on this soon.

Triumph did not make bikes in 1867.
Blah , blah, I think to the best of my "cognisant" (Au. spelling) dissonance blah.

O.M

The one that broke was not original...antiqued white walnut birch I suspect. It was made from a common hardware store dowel rod with angled grain that's why it broke.

"fix it" now that's some really dumb chit....

Next time she goes maybe she'll splinter in yer hand, wrist or eYe.

How does a ram rod slip out of a muzzleloader in a cart ?

I had a Triumph 500 Daytona in college, loved that bike!

For spare or replacement ramrods I scrounge old sections of Greenheart fishing rods from a local rod restorer. Work great. Plastic snuff boxes with spring lids are also handy for containing wads and slip neatly into the pocket. Lagopus�..

I have a muzzleloading rifle for which I made a brass ramrod using tubing from a local hobby shop. Works well. Won't shatter either. It might be very appropriate for a shotgun.

I would hope no one is shopping at Dicks - they're kind a anti-gun.

Does the TOTW ramrod taper?
I don't want to use the original in my Forsyth in the field, however commercial ramrods will not fit the gun as it tapers and is really pretty thin at the end.
An old fishing rod section might work however, just with a brass jag/tip attached,great idea.
Below are the pouches I use,the canvas one goes on the left of my belt and the ex military pair go on the right.
Over powder and felt wads are pre glued to make things simple.
Powder and shot are kept in commercial quick loaders from TOTW.

Nice set up Greg

The TotW ramrod tapers (see photos above)...It has a screw-on cap covering the wad extractor screw end. It is offered in several lengths and three gauges 12, 13, 20. TotW products are well made...but the 28 1/4" rod is 1/4" too long for my barrels. Without the cap..the rod just fits. The problem, however, is the same I faced with the original rod. If I invert the gun into the cart...the rod has a tendency to slide out:



So now I usually put the rod on the cart separate from the gun...that means the Stan-Rod...with the doorknob has a place at the table.

Gene, any way to swap the gun holders around and carry them muzzle up? It's acceptable at every range I ever shot at to do so. The no-no is carrying guns on a range horizontal.

SRH

I would think most places would frown if you rolled yer baby buggy around with a gun pointed up at yer own head Stanley.

Myself I say go for it Ergo44.

Ps...you did not have the original ram rod.

Here's my idea for a spring loaded wad/shot-overcard dispenser. Remember the old gravity fed coin changers every bus driver used to have?



Well, there are a lot of cheap spring loaded tubes now available to dispense coins. They could easily be modified to dispense whatever size card or wad you want.

Stan, I could modify my $10 yard sale jogging baby stroller in two ways.

-- Put a board or metal plank across the "step" in front of the cart..and fix it so butts could be supported there, while using only the ATV gun supports on the upper part of the cart. But I don't much like muzzles pointing towards me.

-- Or I could do same, put some 6" plastic 3" diameter tubes with wool inside on the plank and have them support the muzzles of the guns. Lot of home made strollers up here have them with simple plastic covered utility "U" supports to support the stock area...they are home-made in look and effective.


I actually started out using some old leather "dice cups" for the bottom support (I think I got those when I was living in Karachi in the 1970's - lots of gambling going on and I had a pool table in the house....finally had to limit the bets because fist-fights would break out).
But for some reason I don't like the muzzles of the guns resting on something, even plastic - I guess since that dint appeared in my 16 ga Reilly...I'm a little "gun-shy."

Both solutions would obviate the need for the second set of ATV gun racks... But there are a couple of holes in those ATV gun racks where ramrods fit perfectly...so...since I really don't need to carry the rod in the gun itself and have a bad experience with that...I'll leave it like it is for the moment.

Argo44,

Since you are a muzzleloader as well as a cartridge guy, you might like a cart like this. It has a tray up high where you can put reloading/cleaning supplies, score card, etc. I use this for long range muzzleloading and Creedmoor BPTR.

Rifles ride muzzle up, but more vertically than in the baby jog carts. Big wheels are a must for unpaved ground. Being able to hold a rifle horizontally is advantageous for breechloading rifles. Probably not a big thing for shotguns though.



It also collapses, and the wheels come off with lynch pins.



the space in front of the rifles is used with a fitted wooden box that serves to haul ammo (165 rounds in my case) and other supplies and lunch. It serves as a pretty decent stool too.

Very nice BrentD....works with rifles...did you build it? Looks like you could add a cot..and maybe a Haibachi cooking grill, a cooler, a beer keg.....

But...I only shoot once a week...maybe twice sometimes...and I sort of like that baby stroller - I gave up my 45 year obsessions with Jeep CJ's and Wranglers three years ago and went to a Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk so space is limited.

And, my wife had a fit when I bought it ...tried to convince the Arlington Progressive supporting couple that I was going to use the carriage their baby had ridden in (probably never jogged a mile) to murder somebody. I laughed it off and explained that "Tu sais" ..."Les francaises, elles sont tres emotionelles"...he he he...and I really needed it for granddaughter (still waiting - grandchildren are hard to come by these days).

Yes, I built it. it will carry spotting scope on tripod, two rifles (gotta have a back up), and folding chair.

I see lots of rerigged strollers on the firing line at matches. I also see some purpose-made commercial strollers as well. Several companies make them specifically for guns.

Lever and BPCR silhouette competitors commonly use them, as do Cowboy Action folks, and BPTR at some ranges.

Anyway, the strollers work really well, but I like the challenge of designing and building stuff from scratch, so I did.

Latest equipment. Trying to rationalize how to dispense an overshot card easily (hard to grab in the bag) I found an old penny dispenser toy in a local thrift shop $.50 and decided to try it. Works like a champ. It will dispense up to 30 13 gauge overshot chards with the flick of a thumb.

I tried it on 1/8" cards...it'll work but just barely...not worth it since it will only hold six. But there are old brass nickel dispensers around that should work. That plastic "beer barrel" penny dispenser should have plenty of room for 12 ga. overshot cards.



I was measuring width of various coins - Euros, British, Canadian, US - thickest coin is a British pound. There are pound coin dispensers for sale on the internet and I suspect they'd work with the the 1/8" cards. Old British pound coin dispenser left - right am (old pound) vintage spring loaded pound dispenser in shotgun shell form - will hold 10 pound coins....probably 9 1/8" wads. - postage from UK is prohibitive - but I've a friend who has an old nickel dispenser...we'll check it out next weekend and see if it would work.


Size comparison 13 ga 1/8" wad and the old pound coin:

TOW has had, and is closing out some Hawksley style powder flasks. I really like them, and have used them for years for skeet and sporting clays, probably loaded more than 10,000 rounds through my oldest.

That rifle cart ought to work great on a Sporting Clays course.

Not

With the exception of your double ram rod that card dispenser is the silliest crap I've ever seen posted on this site.

"seen posted" There, I fixed it for yOu...Geo

You sure about that? You have posted lots of silly crap on this site. If your command of the language was better, you could even be clear about who posted what on this site.

Best,
Ted

Nickel dispenser which Friend gave me is tiny....will dispense 4 nickels but won't work with 1/8" wad. Still, it's metal and maybe a little better looking than the plastic one...it often will dispense two overshot cards at a time which can be an advantage. Both are keyring type and could dangle off of about any equipment:

I'm having prototypes of a "coin changer" 1/8" and 3/8" wad dispenser made. Until then I've finally come up with this set-up to help me keep up on the sporting clays round:

1. I found this little pouch on the internet $5.00...small but practical advertised as holding 10 12ga shells...but it expands. (This idea came out of Stan as well...he mentioned he found a pouch which held 50 shells...I started looking on the internet).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Round-Tactical-Molle-Rifle-Stock-Ammo-Mag-Magazine-Pouch-Waist-Vest-Bag-Case/392131797053?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

The 5ml plastic test tube with flick up caps were $4.00 for 50. They'll hold exactly 7/8 oz of shot or 65 grains of powder, about perfect for my gun.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20Pcs-5ml-Plastic-Centrifuge-Tubes-with-Attached-Cap-Round-Bottom-Graduated-Mark/233167890776?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Larger ones are available and I tried using the 10 ml tubes but don't really need to shoot more that what those small tubes hold. The "flick caps" are the way to go...saves a second or two trying to replace the caps and stow the used tubes.

I joined them with rubber bands to speed up loading the barrels. I think I will add a wedge of camouflage tape around the tubes to separate them a bit more - which aids in opening the flip tops. Incidentally, the pouch will easily hold rubber-band joined larger tubes pictured...but you can't close the flap (that's not important since they're sealed anyway and you're not bobbing and weaving in hunt-country).



2. For the 1/8" and 3/8" wads, I finally settled on M&M candy smalls dispensers. I'll put some camouflage tape on them to keep them from being so gaudy. The medium M&M dispenser will carry 9 3/8" wads....the long one about 15. I opted to carry the long candy containers....easier to grab.

The black web case holding them was something given to me in Afghanistan to hold a Swiss Army knife, a Leatherman and a small flashlight. (I tried using a Glock twin mag holder - it works but this is more practical). The overshot (coin) card dispenser hangs off it and the cap dispenser fits where the light went. This on left hip; the shot-powder pouch on right. Seems to work...left hand pulls the cards...right hand centers them. Still working on the double ram-rod.



Anyway, it works smoothly now...I practiced with it a bit. The two pouches are not bulky This gives me 5 shots from both barrels...and additional tubes of shot and powder are easily carried in a separate pouch as need be or these can be reloaded in the field. I know I'm not as experienced as some of you guys but, in trying to speed up the loading process, this is the best I can do for the moment ..and when my "coin changer" card dispensers get here, I let you all know how they work.

The more you use it the more you will streamline your "kit", Gene. I'll try to remember to take pic of the little carrier I use for powder and shot "bottles".

SRH

Gene, here are a couple pics of my m/l shotgun paraphernalia. The little camo bag in the left rear certainly does not look "period", but it sure works well.





If you could get your hands on some of that foam that is in the carrier, you could likely make the holes with a piece of tubing, the right size, with one end sharpened, and turned in a drill press. I'd be glad to send you some of those little snapcap bottles.

Good hunting, SRH

Thanks Stan...nice set up. I'm pretty much walking the sporting clays range at Bull Run Shooting center...I usually only get off about 13 double-bore shots a round and the set up I have allows for walking. I could easily add a rig like yours to the cart though - If I'm with buddies and they start to get antsy about the pace of play, I'll switch to a conventional breech loader.

I'm going to keep the photo because it is so well laid out and logical. Thanks again. This sort of thing is a great help to a new muzzle-loader advocate.

Actually, some of it is redundant. The little camo carrier and the ramrod with holder goes on a dove shoot, and the wooden loading box stays in the truck. Shooting skeet at the range...... the loading box and the loading rod goes, and the camo carrier stays home. I'm sure you get the idea. I just thought I'd squeeze most of it into one pic. Only thing missing, that I use for walking hunting, is a powder flask. In that case both the camo carrier and the loading box stay in the truck, and jacket pockets carry most everything.

Best to you, SRH

Stan, some of your tubes are labeled "50," some "35." What does that mean?

I'm at the point in this early experimental stage for me of just shooting the same 7/8 oz, 65 grain equal volume charge in 7 1/2 shot on the sporting clays range. That works on the range while I'm getting used to the gun. I've tried 1 oz, 70 grains and 1 1/4 oz 75 grain...in 7 and 8 shot (range actually doesn't permit more than 7 1/2). I don't much like the way this works..I shoot better with the smaller load.

And I've two powder flasks...and an old shot pouch...but with 170 year old barrels and stock, I'm loath to try to field load my gun with authentic equipment...prefer the test tubes and pre-measure. There are guns out there in better condition than mine...it's just that it had those two addresses on it...

I used that carrier, also, when shooting my .36 cal. Appalachian style longrifle in competition. Those were the loads, in grains, that I shot at different distances, 35 gr. at 25 yds., 50 gr. at 50 yds., and 60 gr. at 100 yds. It was FFFg in that little rifle, tho'.

I just disregarded the numbers when using it with my shotgun, and shot the same volume of FFg black as the dipper threw when set for 1 oz. of no. 8 shot. It would have been less confusing if I had put in all unmarked "bottles" for the pic.

SRH

One other thing I failed to mention, Gene. On the bottom end of the loading rod I fitted a brass insert almost the same size as the wooden ramrod. It has a hole in the center that is threaded for cleaning jags and other attachments. I use it without any attachments for loading when shooting, but can screw a cleaning patch jag, or brush, onto it for cleaning the barrel, if needed when I'm away from home overnight and away from my other cleaning rods in the shop.

Hope some of this helps, SRH

Thanks...by the way, that's a pretty neat door knob on your ram-rod...Mine also is solid brass from an old Capitol Hill house...When I restored my old 1898 townhouse up there in the early 1980's (coming back from Africa, I had no money - it was still a rough place-I scrounged)...you could get old stuff coming off the gentrifying houses. (I still have a couple of "fancy" ones with entertained initials, etc...the ram-rod used the plainest).

And in spite of what Miller says, that door-knob ram-rod just plain works on sporting clays. Period.

Don't recall saying anything about a door-knob ramrod for when shooting from a fixed position. Should work well on a dove shoot as well. For the type of walk around hunting I did when shooting my ML shotgun, it would just have been in the way. It depends on the use.

I did not & still do not like the idea of the double ramrod. I always completely loaded one barrel at a time & while not actually ramming kept the rod dropped in the other barrel. Very few extra motions & prevented absent-mindedly dropping a part of the load down the wrong barrel.

Sorry Miller...I misread your post..You said nothing about doorknobs...and the one I made copying Stan has come to be my go-to on the range. Plus It'll deliver quite a whack if need be.

The "double ramrod" was sort of a joke/experiment as I was working on the ergonomics of trying to keep up in sporting clays with my buddies. It actually worked on the range. But it is clumsy and I didn't gain many seconds if any by using it. It was just whimsey. I enjoyed playing with it though. It's now disassembled and just a figment of imagination in a history of gun accessory dead-ins.

We shoot just six birds a station at my club. At every station a friend will shoot first, quickly reload and shoot third or forth, reload and shoot last. That way he doesn't hold up anyone. Just a thought.