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susjwp #561315 12/27/19 09:51 AM
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Up front: intent is not to disparage Timberlux or their products. I have never used their products so have no firsthand knowledge as to applicability.

As to Timberlux ingredients, when looking at the Material Data Safety Sheet (MSDS) which is a legal document required by OSHA. Timberlux listed Naphtha (thinner), linseed/sunflower oils and metallic driers.

We all know that linseed oil has historically been used in wood finishes, we also know that linseed oil alone is not a very good wood protectant, as it easily allows moisture and moisture vapor to penetrate the wood fibers. In the past, it’s been mixed with shellac or resins: amber, dammar, copal, etc to make a varnish.

I have no idea on the protective qualities of sunflower oil as nobody recommend it for anything more than “food safe” applications such as cutting boards and salad bowls. And only if you cannot use walnut oil due to nut allergies.

The metallic driers help the linseed and sunflower oils to oxidize, and neither will completely dry on their own.

Respectfully

Mike

susjwp #561318 12/27/19 10:30 AM
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Mike, all I know is it the only finish of it's kind that does not spot or turn white in the rain.

mark #561344 12/27/19 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: mark
Keith what works as good ?



To answer that question, you would have to tell us just what sort of finish you want. In the wood? An on the wood built up finish? Traditional, or tough and shiny as a new bowling pin? What looks correct and proper on a Weatherby rifle won't look right on a flintlock fowler or old vintage double. If you only want a finish that won't spot or turn white in the rain, most any good polyurethane or oil modified urethane will work well at a fraction of the cost. Permalyn or McClosky's Man-O-War are good choices, and have been used by a number of highly respected stockmakers.

Actually, I've spent long days out hunting in the rain with old vintage doubles that I'm quite sure have plain old shellac finishes, and a protective coat of Johnson's paste wax was good to keep them from getting water spots. You can tell a shellac finish very easily if plain rubbing alcohol will easily remove it. If you can find honest to goodness real spar varnish, which unfortunately is not as simple as believing what you read on a label, then you will have a wood finish that was developed for severe outdoor wood protection in all kinds of weather. Pure tung oil is a great finish, much better than linseed... if you can find real pure tung oil. But like linseed, you won't get good results in one day.

A few days ago while Christmas shopping, I found a nice selection of Watco Danish Oil in 16 oz. cans for only $3.99 each. It works well for some applications, and brings out grain and figure nicely, so naturally, I snagged several cans. Whatever you use, it is always wise to try some on a scrap or hidden part of the same wood to see exactly what you will end up with appearance wise. Try 10 different "natural" finishes on the same piece of wood, and you will get 10 different looks.

I totally agree with what Mike Hunter said about linseed oil finishes. Properly done, and with dryers added versus straight pure linseed, you can certainly get an attractive finish. But linseed is a poor choice for a gunstock if you wish to keep out moisture. He is also correct about the typical use for sunflower oil. It would be a great choice for a gun stock finish if you plan to use your stock as a food cutting board.

While this book is geared more toward furniture finishing, I found it to be a very good source of information about the finish you buy, the attributes and deficiencies of various finishes, what you think you are buying, and and more importantly, what you are actually buying. The disciples of Linseed won't like what the author has to say about their favored finish.





A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

susjwp #561348 12/27/19 02:32 PM
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Keith have you used Timberlux?

susjwp #561350 12/27/19 02:42 PM
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Full disclosure... Nope.

And for what they charge for a measly couple ounces, I refuse to be bent over or duped into believing it has any special magical properties that can't be found for a small fraction of the cost of Timberlux. Read that MSDS to see what you are paying for. They should be charged with rape.



A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

susjwp #561352 12/27/19 02:57 PM
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I pay for results . On a sanded in finish it fills faster, top coats quicker and works easier. It also is great for repair and restoration of dry looking stocks. It plays well with other finishes. Depending on level of application you can develop a low satin to a medium gloss.

At less than $10 per stock I can afford it.

I have tried all the stuff you mentioned. I ll send you a bunch of partial containers if you like.

susjwp #561360 12/27/19 03:55 PM
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Of course thicker finishes will fill pores quicker than thinned finishes.

And thinned finishes will penetrate deeper into the wood for better sealing. It's a magical chemical property known as viscosity. For even more versatility, make it thinner for sealing end grain by adding a couple teaspoons of $8.00 a qt. naptha. That's certainly worth $29.95 plus shipping for two whole ounces!

Great to see that you've discovered that boiled linseed oil is good to clean and improve the appearance of dirty, old, dry looking stocks. I can use cheap polyurethane and some rubbing compound or fine steel wool to get a low satin sheen, or a very high gloss. Gloss varnish will work too. No magic there.

I recently bought a full gallon of boiled Linseed oil at Home Depot for several bucks less than you paid for 2 ounces of Timberluxe. Of course, there was no $8.00 a qt. naptha or $3.00 a qt. sunflower oil in the Boiled Linseed Oil can. I mixed some with Fluid Film to spray the frame and underside of my truck. Maybe I should've spent $1968.00 for an equal amount of Timberluxe. That way, I could feel I was doing a better job of protecting my frame from salt spray.

On second thought, I think I'll continue to avoid advertising hype and hyperbole, and spend my hard earned money intelligently. I'd also recommend going back through the old threads here and reading what Damascus had to say about the fantastic profits you could make by selling small bottles of homemade esoteric gun stock finishing elixir. Very important to concoct a catchy Old English sounding name, and to ascribe secret mystical magical properties in the advertisements!


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

susjwp #561363 12/27/19 04:46 PM
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Some of you know me, most don’t, I’ve been doing restorations on vintage Winchesters for 25+ years; I’m also an amateur Winchester/antique firearm history researcher, and Current President of the Winchester Arms Collectors Association (WACA).

A couple of years ago, I was asked to do an article on Winchester wood finishes for the Winchester Collector magazine.

Just as Ford and General Motors don’t make their own paint, Winchester didn’t make its own satins & finishes, but instead purchased them from the XXX Company, a relationship that continued until the late 70s/early 80s.

Somewhere during my research, I was given a copy of Winchester’s wood finishing process circa 1903. I’m not talking pencil scribbling in a notebook, but step by step process laid out on original Winchester stationary: “two coats of XXX Company red brown #2 stain, allow to dry for a day, burnish, apply 1 coat of XXX Company #1 clear sealer”…etc. Unfortunately, The XXX Company has been bought/sold several times so the original company no longer exists and the exact formulations are lost to time or the dumpster.

Around the same timeframe, I was approached by someone peddling Timberlux finishes, they told me they had used the original formulation that Winchester used, which really got my attention. Then they followed up with some story about getting the recipe from a 90-year-old former Winchester employee who used to make the finish at the Winchester factory…. My faith quickly faded.

Now Keith brought up Watco Danish Oil, The Winchester custom shop used to use that for customers who requested a hand rubbed oil finish on their Custom Shop Model 70s, and 21s.

There are a lot of finishes that won’t turn white when exposed to the elements: I really like Daily’s wood finishes https://www.dalyswoodfinishes.com/

You may want to take a look at their SeaFin Teak Oil, SeaFin Ship'n Shore Sealer, and BenMatte Danish Tung Oil, all are made for marine environments, which is pretty harsh.

I use the teak oil and SeaFin Ship'n Shore Sealer on my boat, Seems to protect better than anything else I’ve found, so I’ve adapted them for gunstocks.

Respectfully

Mike

susjwp #561369 12/27/19 06:25 PM
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susjwp, You asked "has anyone used Timberlux" I have used a lot of it. I recently received a 50 bottle shipment. If you have further questions about it give me a call 715-814-1295 or PM me.

I have lost the desire to publicly debate the virtues of Timberlux with folks that have never used it.

susjwp #561377 12/27/19 07:32 PM
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Full disclosure susjwp... I've not only never been foolish enough to pay $29.95 for a 2 ounce bottle of inexpensive linseed oil, naptha, and sunflower oil... I've also never paid big money for Snake Oil or magic beans, and have never bought a real genuine Rolex watch from a vendor on a sidewalk in New York City. I never paid for get rich quick schemes, and I never gave my charge account number and expiration date to a Pakistani sounding guy who called me and said his name is Bob Jones and promised to extend my car warranty or lower my cable and internet bill. I also never gave my bank account and routing number to a Nigerian Prince who promised to deposit his fortune in my account.

Because of that, I probably have no right to comment about such things, and can't possibly know that doing those things would be foolish.

In addition, I'm guessing that you have probably hunted in the rain with one or more guns that was finished with something besides vastly overpriced Timberluxe... and the stock did not spot or turn white in the rain. As Mike Hunter suggested, there are a lot of boats out there with wood trim and various marine finishes that prove the absolute fallacy of that statement.

I also found it interesting that his research showed the Winchester Custom shop used Watco Danish Oil when a customer requested a hand rubbed oil finish on Model 70's and Model 21's. At the $3.99 a pint I paid several days ago, that gives me 2 ounces of Winchester Custom Shop stock finish for about 50 cents.
I may just have to go back and buy several more cans. Several years ago, I did some testing to see which wood glue would give me the least visible joint in black walnut. I cut, planed, and glued up a bunch of small blocks using various wood glues and epoxies. Afterwards, I sanded the glue joints and I applied a coat of about a dozen different wood finishes to my test pieces to also see which ones did the best job of reducing the visibility of a closely fitted glue joint. The Watco Danish Oil was one of the best in this regard, yet it did a good job of bringing out the grain and figure.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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