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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,268 Likes: 93
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,268 Likes: 93 |
Id rather have a 2 1/2 16 bore and a 1 oz load for grouse (& quail). Just my humble opinion though. I like 28 barrels and most, if not all of those 2 guns Ive seen had 26 or shorter barrels. Short barrels are not my cup of tea. Plus, and I guess due to rarity, theres a significant premium for cost of 2 guns. I love the 2 guns, and yes they come in 28 length. I have three coming in from UK (eventually) with one being 28. Two of them will be for sale.
Last edited by battle; 12/25/19 11:26 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,112 Likes: 595
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,112 Likes: 595 |
Mr. Larson: That is a gorgeous Lefever! I love what you've done with it. Shockingly light for an American 12, and Damascus...even better.
Last edited by Lloyd3; 12/25/19 11:58 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,090 Likes: 36
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,090 Likes: 36 |
The 2-inch 12 is clearly going to be difficult to feed in this country.
Lloyd, you disproved this statement in your first post. That could have just as easily have been a box of 2" 12's from RST...
My problem lies in reconciling my gross habits with my net income. - Errol Flynn
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,380 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,380 Likes: 105 |
You have to be somewhat of a tinkerer to reload for the 2" 12. A 2 1/2" 16, on the other hand, isn't that big of a challenge. And if I'm going to rely on a gun for bird hunting, I want to do a fair amount of target shooting with it. That's a significant additional expense if you're shooting nothing but factory shells.
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 960 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 960 Likes: 12 |
Mr. Larson: That is a gorgeous Lefever! I love what you've done with it. Shockingly light for an American 12, and Damascus...even better. Thank you! It's an ungraded special order gun. The only way it could be any better is if I could find an orphaned set of 16ga ejector barrels and have them fitted to it, for an awesome 16/12 two barrel set. If anyone knows of any, please let me know.
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 687 Likes: 48
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 687 Likes: 48 |
I've found that a 1 ounce load is pretty deadly on wild pheasants be it from a 20, 16 or 12. A light well fitted gun will put you on birds faster giving you a yardage advantage over a shooter with a heavier weight shotgun and load. I have/had 12's, 16's and 20's all within a couple ounces +/- of 6# couldn't tell the difference in performance in the field.
After the first shot the rest are just noise.
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,493 Likes: 396
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,493 Likes: 396 |
Lloyd, like Mark I also have a 12 gauge sidelock with longish barrels (29.5") that weighs in at 6.3 pounds. Although it's German, by Sauer, not American. And I used to have a English Army & Navy 12 that was 6.2 pounds with 28" barrels. Much as I love the 16's I have owned, with the right loads, a nice lightweight 12 is nothing to turn one's nose up at.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,112 Likes: 595
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,112 Likes: 595 |
It may be purely perception on my part, but 12s kill much more cleanly for me. Light 12s have always facinated me accordingly. Guns like Thomas Turner's exotic lightweights, Lindner's sweet & light Charles Daily 12s, some of the Lincoln Jeffries offerings, etc. All have great appeal, but...the 2-inch guns are the ultimate expression of that art IMHO.
Last edited by Lloyd3; 12/26/19 12:51 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,767 Likes: 756
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,767 Likes: 756 |
I recall reading about an issue with shot balling on the 2 guns. Do not recall the cause, the fix, or anything else. The ultimate expression thing sounds expensive to me. That little Darne 12 I drag up there every year is 6lbs, 1 oz-with its 6 ounce sling. It is chambered and proofed at 2 3/4, will handle loads that I cant, and hits birds like Odens fury. A light 12 is very doable, without the big, gold letters that say for 2 cartridges only on the top of the barrels. Keep looking. Id insist on modern chambers and proof, but, that that is open for consideration, as 2 1/2 in 12 is doable, also, just not as simply. Simple is easier. Cheaper, usually, too.
Best, Ted
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,112 Likes: 595
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,112 Likes: 595 |
Ted: Well...yes. Your Darne is a classic example of yet another excellent option for an upland bird gun. The round action Ideals are another example. They are clearly out there. To your point on "ultimate" solutions... no question, such a highly specialized tool isn't going to be inexpensive nor will it have much utility outside of it's area of specialization. It's simply the price one pays for the concept. My 16 has been everything I'd hoped it would be and then some. I'd just like to know if there is something more out there. Perhaps something better for the very specific game I'm playing. And, since I've handled several over the years, I'm curious.
Last edited by Lloyd3; 12/26/19 11:05 PM.
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