May
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online
3 registered (oohay, rocky mtn bill, 1 invisible), 3 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
13815 Members
10 Forums
34356 Topics
481109 Posts

Max Online: 462 @ 08/05/16 09:13 PM
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#562205 - 01/08/20 07:57 AM JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age?
AnneUK Offline
Boxlock

Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 12
Loc: England
Hi folks,
I found this forum whilst trying to find out about a rather nice hammer shotgun I've just acquired from Holts auction. It's a J.P. Sauer & Sohn 12 bore with serial number 61458. The serial number appears to be stamped everywhere on the metalwork and the sides and barrels are all signed.
I confess prior to spotting the gun at auction and falling for its looks I knew very little about the firm. I subsequently contacted them (JP Sauer) to ask if they could tell me anything about it, and they obviously brought me up to speed with what happened; the firm being taken over post war and no archives surviving.
So...hence this post! I'd be very grateful if anyone could tell me anything about it. I gather from looking at other vintage Sauer shortguns online that there were different marks or models, but I have no idea what defined them?
Any thoughts on this one gratefully received!

[/img]









I've taken some photos of the areas that I hope are of use; though having just previewed this post Photobucket appears to have stuck whacking great logos across them all. Erm????

If it helps these are links to the same images through Flickr;

https://flic.kr/p/2ibXSUT

https://flic.kr/p/2ibUt3g

https://flic.kr/p/2ibWPC3

https://flic.kr/p/2ibWPDf

https://flic.kr/p/2ibWPEC

https://flic.kr/p/2ibWPGS

https://flic.kr/p/2ibWPLu


very many thanks
Anne

Top
#562206 - 01/08/20 08:20 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
A portion of the Sauer ledgers do exists but are located in the Old Suhl Jail. Appears to be a War trophy & the serial number & English proof mark of >>Not English Make<< stamp will date it. The tubes wear the early Krupp 3 Ringe Stamp and I would guess the chambers are 2 5/8ths inch?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Top
#562207 - 01/08/20 08:34 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
AnneUK Offline
Boxlock

Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 12
Loc: England
Hi Raimey,
very many thanks for the reply. I was intrigued by the rather enthusiastic "NOT ENGLISH MAKE" stamping on it! Holts detailed it thus; "29 1/2in. nitro reproved barrels (pitted), 2 1/2in. chambers, bored approx. 1/4 and full choke, treble-grip action, carved percussion fences, rebounding locks, border and bold foliate scroll engraving."
It's my first hammer gun as I fancied trying something a bit different without jumping straight into black powder. The graining to the stock is beautiful and it does have a lovely comfortable hold to it though I haven't taken it out for a proper play yet.

Top
#562208 - 01/08/20 08:37 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
A Sauer example wearing 61xxx would have been issued a serial number circa 1896 and the >>Not English Make<< was used between 1925 & 1955, if my memory serves correct. So the longarm was more than likely a War Trophy taken to England and per law passed thru the Birmingham proof facility due to a lack of reciprocity between England & Germany. Lots of British Chicken-Scratchin' to sift thru but it appears that the hammer double wears the Sauer Quality Crown.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Top
#562209 - 01/08/20 08:40 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
I can't seem to view the service load on the underside of the right tube but I do see the >>Nicht für Kugel<<(Not for Ball) stamp on the underside of the left tube plus there looks to be 5 stamps of Wildmann w/ a Staff stamp(Sauer trademark & process mark).


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Top
#562210 - 01/08/20 08:46 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
Also, just above the 1st preliminary German stamp of Imperial Eagle paired with a Crowned S is another Wildmann w/ a Staff on each tube. Then there is another set of preliminary marks on the flats. With the new powders and new fangled steels, tube makers will a little unsure if their tubes would completely pass proof and they were to make up the whole of the lot should the tubes fail along the way. So early on they sent the tubes to the proof facility in mass before they sent them on their merry way.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Top
#562212 - 01/08/20 09:50 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
https://flic.kr/p/2ibUt3g


At 1st glance, I would say it is a lovely Sauer Modell Nr. 2 but with the >>12<< and >>5<< on the crossbar on the frame & on the flats just forward of the lugs, I wonder if it indeed is a Sauer Modell Nr. 5?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Top
#562213 - 01/08/20 10:05 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
AnneUK Offline
Boxlock

Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 12
Loc: England
Thanks ever so much for that Raimey, I was trying to decipher the various marks and hadn't managed to get much further than the various initial proof, actual proof and viewed proofs which I'd initially assumed to be foreign (don't laugh, I thought the 'BV' might be for Bavaria rather than Birmingham UK). I'd completely missed the 5 'wildman' marks, is this the mark I've seen referred to as a 'caveman'?
1896 ish is great, makes it the oldest one I own by a few years.
very many thanks for all you've told me.
Anne smile

Top
#562214 - 01/08/20 10:08 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: ellenbr]
AnneUK Offline
Boxlock

Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 12
Loc: England
Interesting, would the '5' there refer to the modell nr and the 12 the gauge?
This is probably a huge question that requires an answer equivalent to an entire reference text...but are there basic or fundamental features that differentiate between the different models?

Top
#562215 - 01/08/20 10:10 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
Yeah, the Germanic folks have an aversion to the term >>Caveman<< I believe so I think we've settled on >>Wildmann<< with a Staff. I just flipped thru Jim Cate's text & for the 61xxx sequence he gives circa 1900. But with the Doll's Head & the Early 3 Ringe Krupp steel stamp it would date from the mid 1890s to 1900? I am still curious as to the load data. If you thumb thru the Sauer Crown's thread, there is quite a bit of info & I have the images still on Photobucket but I have not rectified my account as of yet.

Do it have a menacing muzzle or cross-hatching between the tubes on the business end?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Top
#562216 - 01/08/20 10:19 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
Originally Posted By: Womble
Interesting, would the '5' there refer to the modell nr and the 12 the gauge?
This is probably a huge question that requires an answer equivalent to an entire reference text...but are there basic or fundamental features that differentiate between the different models?


For the moment I would say so, but I believe the Sauer Modell 5's were as scarce as hen's teeth. The date of manufacture would have to be closely narrowed & then look @ the period Sauer catalogues. Then again the Sauer longarm may be contained in the Sauer ledger and all the info is logged there. Just a hop, skip & a jump from Frankfurt but I have yet to make the journey. There are collectors that have make the pilgrimage but I know not what pages they copied.

Quite a bit of info is sorted here:

http://www.germanhuntingguns.com/archives/archive-sauer-j-p/

, http://www.germanhuntingguns.com/about-the-guns/gun-indentification/

and Herr P.O.(Per-Olof) Haggards is an authority & has a website. He just may answer that question.....

www.sauerfineguns.com

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Top
#562220 - 01/08/20 10:41 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
AnneUK Offline
Boxlock

Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 12
Loc: England
Hi Raimey,

I've just taken some extra photos, the muzzle doesn't look that menacing, it just has the same ribbed detailing to the rib between the tubes and a tiny bead sight;

https://flic.kr/p/2ic3gRG

I think I've managed to photograph the load details too;

https://flic.kr/p/2ic2e31

There are some additional marks on the tang that the forend mounts on which I hadn't noticed before, its like a stylised 'X' on the top face and some numbers or letters; S . S . F ? or S . S . u? and possibly two numbers slightly fainter to the left hand side 33?

https://flic.kr/p/2ibYSFR

https://flic.kr/p/2ic2e4y

I've a friend who speaks fluent German so I'll see if we can send Herr Haggard an email.

thanks for your time on this, it's been great learning so much so quickly! smile


Edited by Womble (01/08/20 10:50 AM)

Top
#562221 - 01/08/20 11:25 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
I am not sure if P.O. Haggards speaks German or not. He may, I just don't know. You can either contact him direct or email me & I'll loop you to him.

Yeah, the lack of the spacer between the tubes @ the muzzle make me wonder if the tubes have been cut? Any idea of the length?

That touchmark on the forend lug/hanger is either a stylized K(pick your K mechanic) or L(langenhan?). S.S. may point to tube maker S. Schilling of the Schilling forge. We just don't have a Sauer mechanics list yet.


There's a WW on the water-table which probably denotes effort by a Wolf mechanic or some other W mechanic.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Top
#562222 - 01/08/20 11:40 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
https://flic.kr/p/2ic2e31

PAPP.12-65.5,75 S.P. 34,5 BL.

Papp.(Pappe(Cardboard) Cartouche Cal./Kal.)12-65, 5,75 S.P.(Dram Eq. Powder-Schultz Pulver), 34,5 grammes lead shot(Blei).

Cheers,

Raimey
rse


Top
#562223 - 01/08/20 12:51 PM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: ellenbr]
Der Ami Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 07/04/12
Posts: 3437
Loc: East Alabama
The "Wildman" and the Crown stamps are "in house" Logo and quality stamps by Sauer and are not proof stamps "per se". The actual proof stamps from the Suhl proof house( Sauer guns were proofed there) have been overstamped and mostly obliterated. The fact that it has proof stamps dates it to post 1893. Suhl didn't date the proofs until about 1922, so if there is no date stamp under the British stamps, that would make it 1893 to 1922( if there is a date stamp, it would take a closer exam than possible with the photos to find it) If Raimey's assessment that it is a war trophy, reproofed in England is correct( highly probable), any date gleaned from those marks would not be helpful in dating the manufacture, rather it would be the post 1945 reproof. In about 1911, the German proof procedures were "improved" and the proof loads were replaced by "duty" loads. If the load data can be found, as requested by Raimey, 1911 can be added to the considered dates i.e. 1893 to 1911 or 1911 to 1922. Given Raimey's reading of Jim Cate's data, I vote for 1893 to 1911. This could change if Jim has a specific date or if finding the load data conflicts with it.
Mike

Top
#562226 - 01/08/20 01:46 PM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
skeettx Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 06/03/08
Posts: 4676
Loc: Amarillo, Texas
_________________________

USAF RET 1971-95

Top
#562231 - 01/08/20 04:31 PM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
Upon closer inspection, it appears that the tubes wear the following touchmarks:

>> Deutschland -- England -- Amerika
70343 -- 23495 --505006 <<

This was an expensive Sauer Patented Method of joining tubes & I believe the bulk were Krupp 3 Ringe Stahl? It also will aide in the dating.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Top
#562244 - 01/08/20 05:56 PM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
Der Ami Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 07/04/12
Posts: 3437
Loc: East Alabama
Womble,
I think P.O. Haggards speaks English. I have read some of his articles and they don't seem to be translations.
Mike

Top
#562256 - 01/08/20 08:13 PM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
https://www.morphyauctions.com/jamesdjul...-lindner-49381/

Yeah, if anyone can hang a date on the above Sauer - Lindner - Daly, it has the same Sauer Process Marks(less the HAL over Crossed Sidearms) and would be in the same time frame.

Same Sauer Tube Assembly Patent - 1892 - Germany, 1893 - Amerika
Looks like a the protection period for a German Patent was 15 years up till 1923? But I don't think Sauer continued the expensive process until 1907?


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Top
#562282 - 01/09/20 09:07 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
AnneUK Offline
Boxlock

Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 12
Loc: England
I'm truly stunned by the amount of information you chaps can glean from all these marks!
I've taken a couple more images of the barrel ends and rib, the underside rib looks far better fixed than the top one which has a noticeable smear of solder at the end. Might they have been shortened? The barrel lengths measure 74.5cm so 29 5/16".
The rib towards the stock end has some noticeable 'crimping to it' which I assumed may have been down to it being in a vice at some point? Hard to say if they're squash marks or heavy dents.

Underside of barrels at end
https://flic.kr/p/2icqfTr

Whole top rib
https://flic.kr/p/2icqfTg

dints to rib at end

https://flic.kr/p/2ictPp6

I've sent Her Haggards an email so eagerly await anything he can add!

Top
#562286 - 01/09/20 09:50 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
Der Ami Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 07/04/12
Posts: 3437
Loc: East Alabama
Womble,
The muzzle end of the barrels show signs of shortening by a small amount or, at a minimum, the ribs coming loose and misplacing the end "plug". Nominal barrel lengths would usually be in whole or half centimeters, with actual length sometimes differing slightly due to finishing, "striking" or possibly mistake. Determining the model number might reveal a choice of available nominal barrel lengths. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the original length was 76 cm, but I wouldn't disagree if told it was 74.5. The marks at the chamber end may have resulted from "peening" to tighten the fit, however this is conjecture.
Mike

Top
#562387 - 01/10/20 02:09 PM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
AnneUK Offline
Boxlock

Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 12
Loc: England
Hi all,
I had a lovely email back from Herr Haggards and Raimey was spot on; it's a Mk V;

"I find your Sauer mod. 5 in my records. Beautiful typical German flower engraving!

Yes, your was made around 1906, you can see on my homepage under Gunroom, eighth gun from top, you see the similarity in the looks apart from the engraving.

In old Sauer catalogs, the weapons are depicted with simple engravings. It was the buyer who decided according to wishes. Also choosing steel in the barrels, here you see on your gun, the buyer ordered Krupp Special Lauf Stahl, which was the best."

Thanks for all the advice and information from you all.
very best
Anne smile

Top
#562396 - 01/10/20 02:53 PM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
How 'bout that. A little later than I would have guessed, but @ the end of the period of when the expensive Sauer method of joining tubes. I just though he may have a copy of the Sauer ledger for the period. Any indication of the original tube length?

The engraving would have been Wetzlaub.

Seems you have changed your stage name.


Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Top
#562397 - 01/10/20 03:06 PM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
AnneUK Offline
Boxlock

Registered: 01/07/20
Posts: 12
Loc: England
Hi Raimey,
I'm still getting to grips with how the forum works...and what the various ID's are!
Herr Haggards doesn't mention anything about the tube lengths, but I will ask.
I'm just looking into what would be a safe cartridge to try in it, the 65mm Gamebore Regal 28g no.6 seems to be the one recommended for older guns. Any thoughts?

Top
#562400 - 01/10/20 03:16 PM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
Unless you have substantial pitting, Gamebore should work well. I shoot a Modell Nr. 2 in 16 bore quite often & the chambers have been lengthened by some astute fella to 70mm. On occasion I might shoot a few 70mm 16 bores but recoil is going to be a factor in a light hammergun. I was just thinking of ordering either some 12 bore Gamebore Pure Gold(78xx PSI) or more than likely some Gamebore Traditional Paper(65xx PSI)_(my preference) from Firearms Service, a Kent / Gambore dealer in Kentucky. But you are much closer to the Gamebore source & might reside adjacent to it?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Top
#562428 - 01/10/20 11:03 PM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
Also, if you have any questions on Vintage British Guns in the UK, Diggory Haddock of Ludlow just may be able to answer them:

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/

Dig holds with the offerings from the Little British Isles from the >>Golden Age of Shotgunning<< as he just has not come to terms with the fact that Continental Mechanics were as good, if not better than their British counterparts, who on their walkabouts went to the Continent to learn of advances in firearms and for a transfer of technology. You can tell him I said that. A couple months back he had a lovely lunch @ >>The Charlton Arms<<.



Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Top
#562430 - 01/10/20 11:21 PM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
canvasback Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 5442
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Hahaha. Good one Raimey. Could not agree more.
_________________________
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia

Top
#562505 - 01/11/20 05:40 PM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
Thanks Canvas-Back. Some jest & a lot of truth.

https://www.morphyauctions.com/jamesdjul...-lindner-49381/

The Daly should date from circa 1895/1896. The subject longarm would have well been issued a serial nummer in 1895 but sat on the shelf until an order and then being a Modell Nr. 5, took a bit of time?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Top
#562570 - 01/12/20 08:32 PM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
canvasback Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 5442
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Raimey, I'm not understanding the link between the Sauer in this thread and the Sauer sourced Lindner/Daly in Julia's Auction you linked to. What am I missing?
_________________________
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia

Top
#562675 - 01/14/20 08:53 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
Canvas-Back:

It is the same tube steel, same Sauer process marks, same mechancis & will date to the same period of say 10 - 13 years when Sauer used the same process marks & the same expensive method of joining tubes. The Sauer Modell Nr. 5 was issued a serial number early on & probably set on the shelf until an upper rung order materialized. I do wonder if the number of Wildmann w/ a Staff stamps points toward a Sauer grade?

Oh, and H.A. Lindner all but had to have a Satellite Stamping Station in a room in the Sauer facility.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Top
#562683 - 01/14/20 10:07 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
canvasback Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 5442
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Got it. Thanks Raimey.
_________________________
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia

Top
#563053 - 01/18/20 10:44 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
eightbore Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 02/20/02
Posts: 13057
Loc: Maryland
My Diamond Grade safetyless pigeon gun, owned by John Phillip Sousa, is number 685, four numbers later than the Morphy gun.

Top
#563055 - 01/18/20 11:00 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
Interesting. Does it have Krupp 3 Ringe Stahl tubes?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Top
#565414 - 02/18/20 11:17 AM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
I was doing some reading & stumbled across the following:

>>No. VKS(Modell Nr. 1906) Doppelflinte wie No. V aber mit Läufen aus Krupp'schen Spezial - Gewehrlaufstahl amtlich mit ranchlosen Pulver beschossen.<<

So if a Modell No. V Sauer hammergun wears Krupp'schen Spezial - Gewehrlaufstahl(mit 3 Ringen) then it is a Modell No. VKS.

This also applies to the Sauer Modell Nr. I & II - IKS & IIKS.

By they way the Modells III & IV were cape guns or Biks, with the Nr. IV having 2 sets of tubes:

>>IV(Modell Nr. 1906) Büchsflinte mit Doppelflinten - Wechselläufen, wie No. III gearbeitet.....<<



Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Top
#565418 - 02/18/20 12:46 PM Re: JP Sauer & Sohn 12b Hammergun, any idea of age? [Re: AnneUK]
ellenbr Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 8709
Loc: North Alabama
I would assume that the >>KS<< denotes Krupp'schen Spezial - Gewehrlaufstahl(mit 3 Ringen). So
K - Krupp
S - Stahl? or Spezial?????

Anyway, light choke had an additional fee of 5 Marks and heavy choke warranted a price hike of 10 Marks. Sauer evidently worked w/ the Berlin - Halensee Institute(darstellt)?-(there was a shooting Competition nearby also) to devise shot patterns in the 75cm ring. This effort is noted by either the Large or Small Crowns, with one being shooting performance & the other quality. The Shooting Performance Crown resulted in a surcharge(Mehrpreis) of at least 25 Marks, and more, depending on just how much ammo was used.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >



doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2019 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.