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I�ve been looking for waterfowl dedicated side by side to compliment my upland gun which is a nicely balanced featherweight Elsie 12 gauge. I found a nice looking (from Internet photos) Parker VH 3� magnum built on a #2 frame, 30� barrels full and full, weighs in at 7.75 pounds. Coincidentally that�s the exact weight of my Ruger Red Label Sporting Clays which I have been using in the duck blind for 25 years, I appreciate the extra swing weight, it also absorbs recoil and I don�t have to carry it far from boat to shore blind.

I�ve done a little research on the Parker site and have discovered that Parker did chamber magnum 12 gauges for three inch shells, actually 2 7/8� chambers, but for some reason most are on a too light 1 1/2 frame, some have been seen on #3 frames, but a #2 framed magnum 12 is rare. Have any of you seen a Parker magnum 12 on a two frame? Btw, the gun dealer who I�ve known for 20 years says it is marked on the barrel lugs or frame, I can�t remember which, as factory.

The only issue is the gun is marginally short for me at 13 7/8� including a 1 1/4� recoil pad. That coupled with the fact that I�m down south running my retrievers in field trials, so can�t see the gun in person till mid March, I�d have to jump in blind so to speak. The comb dimensions sound like they�ll work for me, but even with hunting clothes it might require a slip on pad to fit me in the duck blind.

The true, Parker "12-gauge 3-inch Magnum" guns are all late Remington guns. Parker Bros. would always chamber a gun for longer shells throughout their years, but back in the day, our North American ammunition companies didn't put heavier loads in the long shells (2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch) than one could have in a 2 3/4 inch shell. The long shells got more/better wadding. The progressive burning powder, high velocity, 12-gauge 3-inch shell with 1 3/8 ounce of shot hit the market in the 1924/5 time frame --





The 12-gauge 3-inch Magnum loads with 1 5/8 ounce of shot were introduced in 1935 by the Olins along with their new Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck gun.

I have a Parker GHE 12 ga on #2 frame with 32" barrels, weighs 8lbs 5 oz. Unfortunately the stock broke a piece off right behind the action, so it is in the shop being repaired. I was hoping to take it to the Southern and maybe sell there.

I should also mention that I would stick with 2 3/4� bismuth 1 1/4 oz loads.

Researcher:
Do you know if Parker ever chambered a 3-inch 16 ga.?
I have a VHE with what appears to be a longer chamber.

What is marked on the lugs or table? What year is the gun? Serial number?

I haven't had access to the Parker Bros. records to search for 3-inch 16-gauges, but I suspect they exist. In that Parker Bros. by and large didn't mark the chamber length on their guns, only a letter or the original hang-tag can verify a non-standard chamber. There was a series of reports in the sporting press back in the day of A.W. DuBray making the rounds in the southeast doing his hunting using a 16-gauge with 2 7/8 inch shells.

The SAAMI meeting where it was "suggested" that our manufacturers start marking the chamber length on their guns was in 1937. None of my Remington pumps or autoloaders from the 1930s are marked with the chamber length. I don't have one from 1939 or 1940, but my 1941 Remington Sportsman is marked while my guns from 1936 and 1938 are not marked.





The late Remington Parkers were marked on the barrel lug with grade, gauge and chamber length --



Where Parker Bros. put the serial number --



Savage Arms Corp. started marking some of their Fox guns in 1938 and most all in 1939 onward --



I did search the A.H. Fox Gun Co. graded gun production records and found 8 or 9 3-inch 16-gauges and one ordered for 2 7/8 inch shells.

John, if you're going to use only 2 3/4" shells, why are you searching for a 3" chambered gun? There are nice heavy Parkers with shorter chambers that are not as hard to find as a 3" gun. We would still like to hear more about the #2 frame gun you found.

I�m not searching, I found one that looks like it would be a solid, not too heavy, waterfowl gun. I had a nice DS grade Lefever that was a bit heavy for chasing Montana pheasants all day long, but being 110 years old I worried about shooting heavy bismuth duck loads all day.

Cut to today; I now have a 6.5 pound LC Smith FW for pheasants and my eye on this magnum 3� Parker VH grade.

Researcher: Thanks for the very thorough response to my question. As my VHE is a 1914 gun, it is entirely unmarked as to chamber lenth.
I understand it was a special order for pass shooting ducks, the rt barrel XF, and left F., so perhaps the longer chamber was part of a 16ga. "magnum" configuration. Also, sorry for hijack of the OP.

You guys got to quit playing fast and loose with the term "Magnum" in relation to North American shotgunnery. The first time our North American manufacturers used the term "Magnum" for a shotgun and/or shotgun shell was in 1932 with the introduction of Ithaca's NID Magnum-10 and the Western Super-X 10-gauge 3 1/2 inch Magnum shell for it.

There was a photo in one of the earlier Parker books (Larry Baer author) showing a 20 gauge DHE built as one of two guns purchased by an east coast duck club in the Teens. It had factory 3" chambers...

Researcher, do you have a couple of rooms for your library of paper work on old shotguns and shells ? I can still remembering my mother taking me over to the county library and looking up the section for gun related books. I'd usually end up with Greeners big thick book to take home but have to bring back in 3 days. I'm always so amazed at all the info you present on the different gun web sites. Thank you very much for sharing some of what you have.

I wish I knew how to post pictures off my iPhone. I have a picture of the barrel lugs that looks factory original. Under one barrel it clearly shows a JG in an oval and 3 in. MAG. the middle has a 12 sideways 2; the other barrel has a V in a circle, HT over A and a large 4 smaller 2.

I assume the 4-2 is the barrel weight, V = V grade, HT over A proof marks? Anyway, this looks to me like a later Parker that truly is a 3� Magnum.

Blame it on G.E. Lewis. I don't have the date of this ad, but VL&D were the U.S. agents for G.E. Lewis in 1923.



Greener used the term in the 1907 edition of "The Gun"
https://books.google.com/books?id=3HMCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA378&vq

Then there were all the "Long Rangers". Parker "Long Range" in the 1894-95 Montgomery Ward catalog

Close but no cigar!! The pictures on page 36 and 37 of Larry's 1980 combined book of his two previous books from 1974 and 1976, are from the famous Widgeon Duck Club near Visalia, California. There were eight guns in that order to R.F. Cross Hardware Co., seven DHEs and one BHE. The gun Larry showed was the J.A. Hannah gun. Here is the hang-tag for the gun --



The tag shows it wasn't targeted with the hottest 20-gauge loads offered at that time of 2 1/2 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 20 grains of dense smokeless powder such as Infallible or Ballistite pushing 7/8 ounce of shot, but rather the lighter 2 1/4 dram load --



I don't know what Larry was talking about when he stated they were made "with 3-inch chambers for the then revolutionary "ajax heavy" 20-gauge magnum shells." The shells he pictures with the gun are Peters IDEAL with the standard load of the day of 2 1/2 drams of E.C. pushing 7/8 ounce of shot.

While I do have a pretty serious collection of Western Cartridge Co. paper, a lot of ammo catalogs are available on the International Ammunition Association web site, but for as long as I've been looking at it, Winchester and U.S. Cartridge Co. are "coming soon."

My best guess is that the "3 in. MAG." was stamped on the barrel flat by the gunsmith that hogged the chambers out to 3-inch.

If you want, email the picture to AHFCA@comcast.net and I'll post it. You still haven't told us the serial number of the gun.

Same fella?

Thanks, I�ll do that. I�ll ask what the serial number is.

Here is the OPs picture of the barrel flats.



It has the split extractor stems, so appears to me to be a VHE-Grade.

In that the barrel flats do not show the PARKER BROS. OVERLOAD PROVED stamping, it would indicate production before 1926.

I�m passing on the Parker. I bought a nice Sterlingworth Pin gun off the for sale section. I can�t wait to see it.

My old friend Bob(long gone) loved big bore Parkers. I remember that Bob had a 3 inch 12, 2 3.5 10's and a D grade 8 with titanic barrels. The 8 was pictured in the second year of Double Gun.

bill

Bill, can you give us a better idea of which issue and article contains the picture of the D grade 8?

Great day today

Mike

Eightbore
I wrote the article and I am sorry to report I do not remember what issue.

bill

Fun place

Well now, who owes who an apology?

SRH

I do... and I openly and publicly apologize to you Mr. skeettx.

I discovered later today when I opened the link and performed the ctrl F function and typed a topic or author into the box it would bring up those selected items (which is what alarmed me earlier today) but I couldn't continue in opening the articles or pages of the magazine... so my face is red.

My apologies to all involved... and my thanks to you Mike for not making this a bigger issue than I had made it.

Dean

Dean,

Shucks, all is well !!

I went to the skeet range from 9AM to 11:30
and I NEVER missed a target.

BUT it was 30 degrees, snowing and wind blowing from the North
at 30 MPH

Also, NEVER pulled the trigger on a clay

Mike

Mike - that sounds like some of our New Year�s Day Shoots in NH every year.

I don�t blame you for not shooting... I shoot very poorly if I�m cold.